My Appeal: Go To Church
by
Ted Slater
on Oct 4, 2007 at 3:03 PM
"If you are not a member of a church you regularly attend, you may well be going to hell."*
And what if you're not even attending church?
Many of our readers are in college. And many college students drift spiritually, largely because they don't hang out with other Christians or go to church. I'm concerned that some of our readers are backburnering church attendance. Maybe even backburnering being part of InterVarsity or Campus Crusade or Baptist Student Union or one of the other great campus ministries.
The thing is, if you're not going to church, your spiritual life is being hindered. It may very well even die.
Thabiti talks about it. Steve talks about it. Candice talks about it. Matt talks about it. Nathan talks about it. Joshua talks about it. Suzanne talks about it.
And of course, Christ talks about it, calling it his beloved bride. His beloved bride. Surely if he loves the church, we should as well.
Please forgive the brashness of my appeal to you: For the sake of your soul, please find a decent church and at least make it part of your weekend routine.
*A bit hyperbolic, but when Pastor Mark Dever says this, it gets his listeners' attention.
1. Rachel had the following to say on Oct 4 at 3:23 PM:
Steve says:
"Micro scooter yourself over to the late service of that local fellowship that: 1) Teaches the Bible as the Word of God, 2) Has great worship, and 3) Welcomes you and your friends."
Unfortunately, so far in my area, I haven't found a church like this. What should students do when they struggle with finding a good church?
2. NeedACatchyName had the following to say on Oct 4 at 3:30 PM:
I know I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating. Campus Crusade, FCA, Baptist Student Union, Wesley Foundation, etc. are all good ministries in their proper context, but they are not churches, and should not take the place of churches. If you're trying to attend these organizations instead of church, then you need to find a proper church. Furthermore, your first priority should be your church, not parachurch organizations like the ones listed above. A lot of college students attend a church on Sunday mornings but spend the rest of their time at parachurch organizations. Parachurch organizations are great (I was a member of one myself in college), but if you're neglecting church activities to participate in them, then you have your priorities reversed. You should participate in parachurch organizations only when they don't interfere with obligations at your church.
Incidentally, I know one of the pastors who's in charge of a local college parachurch organization. He requires that all of the student leaders in his organization be actively involved and members of a local church if they intended to serve as leaders. This, IMHO, is an excellent idea.
3. DT had the following to say on Oct 4 at 4:39 PM:
Amen. I was a regular attender of Reformed University Fellowship when I was in college in the 90s, but it's no replacement at all with actually getting up and going to church each Sunday.
People complain that they can't find a good church that meets their needs, so they end up not going at all. Folks, the problem is not with all those churches. The problem is with YOU.
4. J.T. had the following to say on Oct 4 at 4:46 PM:
Hey, I'm not a member of my church and I lead the middle school Bible study on Wednesday nights. It's not that I am against going to church, but in my friends' views, we don't join churches. We are Christians; and as such we identify ourselves with our Lord and Savior, not our church!
5. Ashley had the following to say on Oct 4 at 6:03 PM:
To be frank, I'm quite frustrated with the great importance that Boundless puts on this issue... not that it isn't important, but it often guilts people who really have tried or been trying to find a church and haven't.
I've said it before, but I have had an interesting journey the past 4 years and I have yet to find a church to belong to. Of course I've gone to church, and I've been actively involved in a local youth ministry, but as for finding a home church, I haven't been able to do that yet. I also feel that God had me in a specific situation where He wanted me to rely on Him FIRST before others, and so I spent quite a bit of the time during the past 4 years working and focusing on my relationship with Him, instead of stressing out about church membership.
Let me stress that I understand church membership and attendance is important, but sometimes God has us at different places or seasons in life. Sometimes solitude is very important too. I think perhaps the message should be "seek out God's will for you and your life" instead of listing things that people "should" do. And I'll reiterate, I'm NOT saying we shouldn't belong to church or a christian community, we should. BUT this can look very different than what most of us think is "normal" and there are times that God may require us to live in a different situation as I mentioned above.
Also, low church attendance doesn't mean the spiritual life is being hindered. That's a very black and white statement. My spiritual life has grown tenfold over the past 5 or 6 years and 4 of those years I haven't belonged to a specific church. Yes I did still have a Christian community, off and on, but ultimately God needed me for Himself first, so I would know how to 1) depend on God and no one else 2) love others and 3) take care of the youth I worked with.
God isn't limited to a black and white box (which I'm sure you all know), and sometimes people's journeys are very unique but we look at it and think "abnormal" or that they are completely off their rocker. But hey, look how many people in the Bible were considered crazy too....
6. Ray had the following to say on Oct 4 at 6:34 PM:
Ok, so you don't join a church? Huh... Jesus says that he gave his life for his church. In fact, he calls the church his bride. So you're going to suck up to the Man but dis his woman?
I don't think you're reading the OT or NT very well. You can't love God and have nothing to do with his people or his plan (i.e. the church).
You can't love God and not love what He loves.
7. Carrie had the following to say on Oct 4 at 6:52 PM:
J.T. . . . there is too much to say and I'm not smart enough to say this concisely and tactfully -- you're wrong and the Church is suffering because of the attitude you adopt and adhere to.
8. Sarah had the following to say on Oct 4 at 7:45 PM:
Finding a church while in college at a time that you are struggling to differentiate between the local and universal church after you were seriously burned by pretty much the only church you ever known before going to college: easier said than done.
it's not that i don't want to go to church (I usually do). It's not even that I necessarily don't want to find another "local" church (I've tried). But i'm not entirely clear on the purpose/concept of most modern local churches. They sometimes seem contrived and so far separated from the simple gathering together for the breaking of bread and for prayer and giving of offering to help the poor (not fund excessive programs) that comes across in Acts 2.
9. brx had the following to say on Oct 4 at 7:52 PM:
'Saw a provocative T-shirt message worn by a big, friendly guy; it read "Don't go to church." across the front. When he turned around, I could see the back, which read "Be the church."
Turned out the guy was an experienced youth pastor who was also now serving as financial controller for a local congregation of Christians.
Hmmm, "right", I thought; the Bible talks about gathering with believers but not so much about buildings with fancy chairs, intricate landscaping, highered bands, million-dollar stage lighting, and million-dollar sound systems. It made me think more about the forms of the bride of Christ.
10. Mariposa had the following to say on Oct 4 at 8:44 PM:
Issuing threats might work with the dim-witted or easily frightened, but it's rarely effective with confident adults. If you're selling something, people expect to hear about a positive value ... and if you can't articulate a value, they'll assume you haven't got one.
11. tmd had the following to say on Oct 4 at 8:53 PM:
Couldn't agree with you more, Ted.
12. Jen had the following to say on Oct 4 at 10:15 PM:
Your post, and entire blog, might be more profitable if you stopped throwing around shock-phrases like "If you are not a member of a church you regularly attend, you may well be going to hell." (and using titles like "You can be a mom AND look like a porn star") and started throwing in some verses from Scripture once in awhile. As young people in today's culture, we get enough ideas thrown out at us. You're just another voice unless you teach from Scripture, using Scripture. "For the Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." I applaud your willingness to take a stand, and to try to give direction to so many. However, I marvel at the lack of Scripture.
13. Julia had the following to say on Oct 4 at 10:19 PM:
When I gave my life to Jesus, I joined THE Church, not a church. We are called to be members of ONE body, not a particular denomintation.
Being a member of a local congregation doesn't have to mean signing a form and voting for a pastor. It should mean tithing faithfully, attending services regularly, following the Holy Spirit's leadings and using your gifts and ministries sacrificially to further the Kingdom of God and serve your brothers and sisters.
14. Geoff the djembe had the following to say on Oct 4 at 10:20 PM:
now i get to be that one Christian that asks a stupid question. But i'll do it for the sake of clarification.
My understanding is that the church, is is the body of believers, not just a building and the memberships.
Now i've attended church all my life, and i love my current church. God has blessed me with a church that i adore, and i can't see myself apart from it. Can anyone show me the biblical references to the concept of church as it pertains to buildings and memberships?
not trying to argue, but i am curious
15. RH had the following to say on Oct 4 at 11:46 PM:
I don't actually know how to become a member at my current church or even how to ask someone. On Sunday mornings, I can recognize some of the songs, and when they put the words up on a screen I can even read some of them and sing along a little bit. I'm not very good at the responsive reading, but I'm learning how to recite the Lord's Prayer with everyone. I can usually find the passage, but for the hour and a half sermon I can only catch little snipets of the meaning every now and then, comprehending maybe 30% of it on a good day.
However, I love my church and was absolutely overjoyed to find it. I'm living in a very large and well-known Asian country right now, and my comprehension of the language is rather limited at the moment, as I'm still a student. Despite the language barrier, I happily come every Sunday. I may not fully understand the service, but I am still able to join brothers and sisters in worship. Not really having any "siblings" at my college here, I treasure the fellowship Sunday mornings, in spite of the difficulties I have understanding a lot of it.
I didn't think I would ever find a church here, let alone be able to regularly attend. I can't put into words the feeling of joining in worship with brothers and sisters halfway around the world, even if I don't know all the words. It is so refreshing and uplifting.
His bride is alive and well even here because people devote themselves to joining in work and worship no matter what authorities and governments say. How much more should His bride thrive in nations where she can live more freely?
16. Amanda had the following to say on Oct 5 at 5:47 AM:
Um, I have a problem with the statement "If you are not a member of a church you regularly attend, you may well be going to hell." Scripture says in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast." It doesn't say "for by grace and going to church are ye saved." Yes, Scripture teaches not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. But it's not a requirement for Salvation.
17. John D. had the following to say on Oct 5 at 7:12 AM:
Church attendance and membership is all well and good, but it's more complicated than "just go to church."
In New Testament times there was apparently just one church in any given city: the church at Colosse, the church at Corinth, etc., although the believers met in smaller groups from house to house.
Now, thanks to 2,000 years of church history, there are a plethora of difference denominations and sub-denominations, each embracing doctrinal distinctions of greater or lesser importance, and either more or less faithful to the Word. If you're a Calvinist or Arminian, a sprinkler or a believer in full immersion, a King James Only maven or an NIV lover, you will have to make choices. The New Testament believers had challenges (like being thrown to the lions) but a smorgasbord of churches to choose from was not one of them.
Believers in some cities will find few, if any, faithful Bible-beleiving churches to choose from. In other places there are too many choices. Sure, you can find a place to warm a pew on Sunday mornings, but if you want to commit yourself to a particular congregation, you have to think long and hard before you take the New Member classes, meet the elders, etc.
I can see why students in particular, who know they will be moving on in a few years, are reluctant to get involved with a local congregation. The important thing is fellowship with other believers. Where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.
18. J.T. had the following to say on Oct 5 at 7:13 AM:
I think some of you misunderstand. I'm not against going to church; and spiritually, I have joined. It's just not "legal" for lack of a better term. My friends and I look on denominations as a necessary evil. Think about what an outsider sees: squabbling theologians that are trying to superimpose their view of some theological topic on us. I don't want to be associated with that. Therefore, my allegiance is to my Lord, Savior and future groom, not to a specific church. What do you call yourselves? Christians or [enter the name of your denomination here.]?
19. J.T. had the following to say on Oct 5 at 7:42 AM:
It's me again; sorry.
To Ray and Carrie: Let me clarify further. I go to church every time the doors open (the same church I might add.) Church attendance is good. I am actively involved in my church. Involvement is good. I am not, however, a member. The legal side of church membership is what bugs me. In particular the politics of the whole thing. In reality, church membership shows nothing except that you took a disipleship and stood up in front of the congregation on a Sunday, raised your right hand and repeated what the pastor said. There are members of churches who haven't gone in 30 years. And there are members who really further the kingdom of heaven. I think that collectively, we put to much emphasis on becoming a "member" of a church. The early church didn't do membership. I'm not dissing Christ's bride, and I'm not some vigalante Christian who forgets about my brothers and sisters and God's will.
20. Regina had the following to say on Oct 5 at 8:37 AM:
If you find a church that teaches the bible you should go no matter what. You can find things wrong with ANY church. Why don't YOU be the person to make changes in the congragation you choose instead of complaining that you haven't found a perfect church.
Ashley, God commands us to go to church. It would be arrogant to think that he requires something different of you than he does of everyone else in the world.
21. Jonathan Dodson had the following to say on Oct 5 at 8:55 AM:
How do you balance your charge with the fact that we are the church, ted? it seems that many are disillusioned with "going to church" because in many cases it has become an impersonal event not a Christ-centered community. Shouldn't we rather, "Be the church?"
22. Ashley S. had the following to say on Oct 5 at 9:23 AM:
The church is not a building, it is a body of believers. My family meets in a home-church with other believers every Sunday. This is certainly an option for those of you who can't find a church nearby that shares your core beliefs. Fellowship with other believers is important since that is a part of how we grow in our faith This might mean that you and some other like-minded freinds get together in your dorm room for study and prayer. This is just as worthwhile as going to a church, sitting in a pew and listening to a preacher. Perhaps even more.
23. Becca had the following to say on Oct 5 at 10:21 AM:
Ouch! I think this discussion has hit a nerve!
Here's my two cents worth - I grew up in the church. I was there every Sunday (morning and evening) and Wednesday night. Taught SS, VBS, etc. consistently and LOVED it. Got to college and majored in Christian Education (trying to make it my profession) and ended up married to a youth pastor. Since college I have become nothing but disillusioned with the local church. I am 27 years old and have been a part of two congregations where the pastor was stealing money. At one of them, we were on staff and had to resign because the board wouldn't do anything about it. Then another church stuffed the kids/teens in the basement stating that they don't generate revenue for the church so we should not care about them. I was at the end of my rope, grieving and becoming depressed with every Sunday morning that would come.
It is sheer grace that I am now a regular church attender (no longer on staff anywhere). We stumbled, literally stumbled into the church we attend now. I know, I know, it must have actually been the Lord's grace because I told Him I was done with the local church. Done, done, done!
God does a great work by being part of a local community of fellow believers but I do not judge anyone who is not regularly attending. I think many of them deep down want to be part of a church, they're just scared or have been hurt. I can't blame them. The last 7 years of my life has been like repeatly running myself into a brick wall.
24. Nick had the following to say on Oct 5 at 10:29 AM:
amen.
This is an appeal that bears repeating. Be a MEMBER - meaning - pursue growth in the church! Don't just take up a seat.
This is something I need to remind myself - church isn't just a Sunday Morning thing.
25. Brian had the following to say on Oct 5 at 10:44 AM:
...and don't just "attend" a church, or even stop at becoming a member. Get involved! I believe God has called ALL of his people to somehow contribute their time or service to the church. If you can't teach, so what! I'm sure you can babysit a room of 2 year olds during the second service. Can't do that? I'm sure you can help the ushers clean up the sanctuary after the service, or help mow the yard in the summer...
My point is that attending church, while vital, is not enough. When you start serving, be prepared for the amazing ways God will use you!
26. KendraW had the following to say on Oct 5 at 10:47 AM:
Finding a church has always been a huge priority when I move to a new city. I've maintained membership at the church I switched to in high school, which is the one my family still attends, but attended church in the towns where I've been at school. I do consider church attendance to be hugely important to my growth and development as a Christian. My membership currently resides with the United Methodist Church although I grew up attending Presbyterian churches and I've attended and worked for Baptist churches.
Since moving to Houston for my grad study I've been attending a large Methodist church but after prayer and counseling with my wonderful friends and mentors I've realized that this church is not a good match for me. So I'm out looking for a new church again. I've talked to friends and had them contact pastors they know in the greater Houston area to help me find some churches that will match up well with my belief system.
I understand the temptation to think that one can get the support one needs without attending a church but I don't think you really can. Church attendance is enormously important to the growth of Christians both individually and corporately.
27. Brian had the following to say on Oct 5 at 11:03 AM:
KendraW,
Based on your denominational background, you might find a home in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC) My wife (who grew up United Methodist) and I (who grew up Southern Baptist) attended an EPC church while in college, and have recently joined an EPC church in our new location. While looking for a church after our recent move, we found that many Baptist and Methodist churches, while theologically sound (for the most part) are struggling to keep the faith relevant in today's culture. If you haven't yet considered it, I would suggest you give it a try.
28. Ted Slater had the following to say on Oct 5 at 11:13 AM:
Some great questions.
Yes, we are to "be the Church." But how else can you do this besides gathering together with other Christians to (as 1 Cor. 14:26 says) sing a hymn, engage with a lesson, consider a revelation, and so on?
Yes, the *heart* of the matter is *being* the Body, being the Bride of Christ. But I don't know what that looks like besides gathering together as a corporate body of believers.
Do we not need each other? Can the eye say to the hand, "I have no need of you" (1 Cor. 12:21)? Are our prayers not more effective when we gather together (Matt. 18:19f)?
Again, how is it possible to "be the church" if we neglect meeting together (Heb. 10:25)?
I'm not trying to be legalistic. I'm not trying lay a guilt trip on anyone. I'm just saying that chuch involvement (and the definition of "church" may be a bit fuzzy) is expected of those who follow Christ and count themselves among His saints.
Church is a gift from God to us. It benefits us to embrace this gift. It harms us not to.
29. Ted Slater had the following to say on Oct 5 at 11:18 AM:
Jonathan -- you're right. I used the colloquial phrase "go to church" because it's easy to understand at a glance. There's a practical "call to action" that's easily grasped.
Of course, I advocate meaningful church involvement, participating with other followers of Christ within some sort of formalized context, a gathering that reflects the structure outlined in Scripture, and not just the activity of driving to a building to sit through a sermon. :-)
30. Tami had the following to say on Oct 5 at 11:28 AM:
There's a couple of senses of being a member. There's the sense of being an active, committed "body part" in your local church body. And then there's officially "joining" your church through baptism, attending the orientation class (or what have you), signing a statement of faith, etc.
Many believers who are active in church life attend congregations where there's no such thing as "official" membership. And some "card-carrying church members" clock in and clock out of a church service, never to be seen or heard from at any other time.
And I totally agree with brx. I really, really dislike the idea of "hiring out" worship team musicians, especially NON-CHRISTIAN ones. I see that happen. And especially when the guys are -- ahem -- attractive and unmarried, how is a gal in the congregation going to know that he's (a) a hired gun and (b) a non-believer, unless she knows the deal with the team? (And how many churches are going to own up to that?) Yes, we're there to worship and not check out the dude with the bass, but still, the church has a responsibility to make sure the worship team is actually worshipping the Lord. Or at least I would hope they would be inclined that way.
31. Kyu had the following to say on Oct 5 at 12:26 PM:
Becoming church members, serving the church, seeking fellowship, and learning Scripture are all great things. They're very important.
But let's not forget that we're setting aside two hours each week to come together with other believers to GIVE God worship first and foremost on HIS day. Not that God NEEDS our worship, or that the only way to worship God is through Sunday service (we worship 7 days a week through our lives), but coming together on Sabbath because God simply blessed that day is how we can glorify God.
If it indeed is true that all the churches around you aren't filling your needs, or that you're disillusioned by all the conflicts and scandals in the church, CREATE your own church service! Set aside that time on Sabbath with your friends and include praise, prayer, and Scripture. Most of us grew up in the church (especially those of us that are so critical of it), so we should know 'how' to structure a worship service. If you're unwilling to do that, attend your local church and get it into your head that you were made to worship God before you seek to fill your list of requirements. At the very least, let's praise God wholeheartedly during the worship time, even if the sermon is boring, or there's lack of fellowship after the service. The least we can do is corporately show our God of the universe some proper respect and due glory with our mouths and hearts.
It's good we have so many churches to choose from in this country, with absolute freedom of religion; something that so many countries are missing and longing for. Read some of these posts again people; read it as if you're living in a country that doesn't even recognize Christian churches. Isn't it embarrassing how spoiled we are? People from nations like China, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia would laugh at this folks.
32. Joy had the following to say on Oct 5 at 1:40 PM:
We can be the Church and go to church at the same time. Church is not just about fellowshipping with believers. One of the most important roles that the local church plays is providing a place where people can come and submit themselves under a leadership. Without this crucial piece in a believer's life they can easily fall. God has placed spiritual leaders in order to watch over us.
Hebrews 13:7 says "Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you."
It's kind of impossible to obey someone you haven't submited under.
And by the way a person doesn't have to be perfect for you to submit yourselves under them. That's not the point. The point is that they are responsible to God for you and it's not your job to tell them how to do it (that would be God's job).
So find a place where you respect the leadership, the theology is sound, and where they love people. The worship team doesn't have to be perfect and the preacher doesn't have to be a great orator (or entertainer for that matter). Church is about people. People gathering together and submitting themselves under a man who is submitting themselves under God (most pastors have mentors or denomination heads they submit to as well). Just like Paul told the Corinthians "Imitate me as I imitate Christ."
Also, for those who take the verses in Acts out of context: yes they did meet together daily to pray and eat in each others homes. BUT they also met every Shabbat (or Sabbath) at the synagouge to worship under Christian leadership like Peter. They were Jewish believers who did not give up their Jewish customs of meeting weekly in a BUILDING under a leader. We gentiles didn't invent the concept of the Church we just joined it.
33. nikki had the following to say on Oct 5 at 1:44 PM:
I know this wasn't necessarily the main point of the post, but I also do not understand how it is more scriptural to be an official "member" of a church, as opposed to a dedicated attendee. Could someone provide some Scripture for that, as another commenter requested?
Of course I'm asking because I am pretty sure there isn't any. Maybe we could have a Boundless article that deals with official church membership?
34. Ted Slater had the following to say on Oct 5 at 2:25 PM:
nikki -- a couple of the articles above specifically address church membership. Let me know what you think after you check them out!
35. kaarina had the following to say on Oct 5 at 2:34 PM:
A personal story, briefly put; it's not the church you attend (or your level of involvement), it's the heart with which you serve God. I am "nominally" involved in my church (I go to sunday school and the services as often as health permits, which is 2-4 times a month, I vote and pray for the members of the body, but have no income so do not tithe, and don't serve on any committees or outreach programs) but God and I are wrestling and working. God has severe, often painful, things to be teaching me, and when I am too busy with "church life", I simply cannot hear Him talking to me -- I'm too busy, too self-serving, too convinced of my own piety, as if involvement equates goodness.
Call it a sabbatical, if you like; God is dealing with me in the manner He sees fit, teaching me difficult lessons like dependence and humility, justice and mercy, and He is not using exclusively the local body of Christ, but primarily a host of witnesses, past and present, from around the world, who have strange connections to and around me. He is overcoming my restless heart with the Truth -- my life is starting to resemble one long unending theology lesson. Those who the Lord is calling me to serve in His name at the moment are not my congregational brothers and sisters, for the most part (though I pray for them).
Some might look at my minimal involvement with my local congregation and conclude I am a nominal Christian, but that would not be true; though I have not learned to yield my will as I should, God is present before me in all my dealings, including the ones I would rather He wasn't. Sometime, in the future, He will say to me, enough is enough, serve your community, give to the congregation you sit amongst on Sundays. But today, He tells me that we are not yet done with what I must learn before I can entangle myself again in that world without losing sight of the purpose.
Not everyone who deliberately withholds themselves from the full measure of service does it out of laziness or a lack of commitment. Churches can be as much full of peril as they can be full of God's grace.
36. ben had the following to say on Oct 5 at 2:47 PM:
Why should a college student have to go to both church and a campus ministry, or else be accused of "backburnering?" I happen to have gone to both when I was in college, but I think that students should be able to choose to attend simply "church," and skip campus ministry involvement without being labeled as a slacker. If attending a campus ministry is so vital, then why is there not an equivalent for everyone older than college age? This brings me to my bigger question, regarding campus ministries: why is a campus ministry considered to not be a church? Most of these comments by other Boundless readers have all highlighted things that can be found in some (but not all) campus ministries. The campus ministry I attended in college did the same things that Ted described of a church, mainly "gathering together with other Christians to sing a hymn [and praise songs], engage with a [scripture based] lesson, consider a revelation, and so on, [including for the ministry I was involved in, monetary giving, ministry outreach to others, small group bible studies] and so on." I'm not necessarily trying to argue this point, I just hear a lot of conclusory statements that campus ministries are not the same as church. But, when people define why it is important to go to church, they cite the very same things I saw in the campus ministry I attended. I'm curious if anyone has a thoughtful reflection or response to this question of why a campus ministry cannot be considered a "church."
37. Jonathan Dodson had the following to say on Oct 5 at 3:36 PM:
Figured you meant participation in a community of faith, but these days I think we have to be incredibly careful in avoiding talk that smacks of legalism to our listeners/readers.
The difference between "going to church" and "being the church" is, in many respects, what the whole Missional Church movement is about. Too many of us have fallen into "going to church" without "being the church"--being a community of Spirit-led disciples who together redemptively engage peoples and cultures through Christ for the glory of God.
I, of course, appreciate the heart of your comments, Ted. The local church is incredibly important, it is the bride of Christ, the city on a hill, the very body of Jesus our head.
38. KendraW had the following to say on Oct 5 at 4:14 PM:
Brian,
Thanks so much for the info on the EPC. I'll look for some here in Houston. I know I have a varied background and try to remember that no church is going to fit exactly what I believe/feel/need. And that's okay.
About being a member:
I do believe it's important to be a member of a church. My membership still rests with the church I went to in highschool. This is partly because my parent's still go there and I'm still involved in some of the ministry aspects. The other reason is that as a college student majoring in piano I played for a variety of churches in college. The main one I played for would have required me to be re-baptized to join and I didn't want to do that. Now that I'm getting settled in for grad school I'm taking the church search much more seriously because I recognize the need to join the church.
Being an actual member heightens the sense of community and responsibility. It's easier for the church to hold members accountable as opposed to regular attendees.
I guess to me it's a lot like the difference with just living with someone and actually marrying them. There's not a lot of difference in the eyes of the world but in the eyes of God and the church there's a world of difference.
39. tiffany had the following to say on Oct 6 at 1:06 AM:
Regular fellowship, exhortation, encouragement, and accountability. That's what I understand the assembly of believers to be from my study of scripture. It's interesting how much scripture doesn't say about what it should look like...
I think that many of the thoughts on church which have been expressed are the result of a cultural interpretation of scripture. We can't imagine fellowship happening without the organizations that we know and love. But we have to be careful in saying that the way most North Americans practice church is the only way that it can happen.
A Biblical principle is one that is for all people, at all times. Most of this conversation is completely irrelevant to the third-world Muslim country where I currently work and reside, which causes me to wonder how necessary or essential it really is.
40. Chris Krycho had the following to say on Oct 7 at 12:47 AM:
ben - I might suggest that the primary difference between a campus ministry and a church is the lack of the full functioning aspect of a local church: in short and with little tact, we might sum it up by saying, "No old people." I don't believe the body of Christ - in its local incarnation or it's global configuration (for which case it's not a problem) - should ever be a homogeneous group. We young folk need the wisdom of people in their older years; the single people need married couples, families, and so on - and vice versa. The teenagers need twenty-somethings to look up to... and the twenty-somethings really need teenagers looking up to them. There's not much chance to interact with little children (from whom we might best learn the attitude we need toward the Kingdom of God if we're going to take Christ's advice, which I would say we ought to). In short, a campus ministry isn't a church in the sense of being a whole body. It's more like a couple of strong arms, but without a torso or legs...
41. Leah had the following to say on Oct 7 at 8:57 AM:
I don't care what Mark Dever says, that statement is downright false.
42. Leah had the following to say on Oct 7 at 9:03 AM:
NeedACatchyName: I completely agree when you say that those organisations should not replace real church. However, I question your assertion that real church should be your "first priority". I guess it depends what you mean by "first priority". If you mean "if the two clash, you should go to your normal church service and not para-church organisation", then I agree. However, if it means "You should be serving in your church rather than the para-church organisation", I disagree. Some people are called to work with university groups, and are not so suited to service in the church (although they should most certainly still be attending). Take my university staff worker for example. He happens to go to my church too. He preaches once every so often at church, but aside from that, serves very little within the actual church. A vast majority of his service for God is done on the university campus spreading and teaching God's word there.
43. Jean had the following to say on Oct 7 at 9:37 PM:
I really believe that one should find a church to get involved especially during college years. Being involved and active in a church will help one from becoming spiritually 'flaky.' As a living body of Christ, the church, I believe, provides community, accountability, spiritual 'feeding', and growth particularly during the testy years of college.
Although no one church is perfect, students should find a church that will help them in their Christian walk. As a dear friend of mine put it, "we don't go to church to worship the preacher; we are there to worship Jesus."
Focusing on the human aspect of church, there will always come a time when will be disappointed and hurt, and even feel like our church has failed us. Thus it is important to remind ourselves the real reason of why we are in church.
I grew up going to church since I was a kid; then I went to college. It was in college that I started to skip church because I thought being part of a Christian organization in school woud be enough to help me in my spriritual growth...with all things academic/social things happening around me. However, just spending time with my Christian friends was not enough. While it provided me with some form of community, for the most part, I floundered around like a lost kid.
Thankfully when I left for Asia to teach after university, I found a church where I can regularly attend and be a part of the church family. Based on my experience, I now truly believe it is important to be part of a church that will help a student grow in their Christian walk.
44. Joshua had the following to say on Oct 8 at 8:37 AM:
Just a thought on formal membership. My church (a Calvary Chapel affiliate) has no formal membership (nor do other CC affiliates). Rather than having new member classes, or voting on whether or not a person can be a member, we look at whether or not a person is regularly attending, active in service in the body, and how their life looks to be going. I won't say it's a foolproof system, but I am of the conviction that membership roles do not usually work as well as the system we go by.
For example: when my father took over pastoring one church years ago (decades ago, I'd say), he began cleaning out the membership roster. He wasn't excommunicating people or something, but when a third or more of the "membership" has been deceased for at least a few years, some housekeeping is in order. Anyway, there was one young man who'd been a member most of his life. Upon talking to him, my dad removed him from membership (the reason? He was a practicing Buddhist and said that he wanted to end his membership...simple enough). His mother was infuriated, thinking that the membership had some sort of impact on his salvation.
As far as accountability of members vs non-members, I haven't seen that being a problem. If, after 6 months of regular, active attendance and behind-the-scenes type of service, a person begins a leadership position, and then gets out of line and won't stop it, they are removed from the leadership position.
45. Kevin Cheung had the following to say on Oct 8 at 10:25 AM:
God never intended The Church to be a place. He intended it to be a people. He intended it to be a body of people that are consistently being changed into the image of Christ. Just as Christ was the image of God.
That being said, Christians need The Church, but it's not a place they need to go to.
46. Ted Slater had the following to say on Oct 8 at 11:21 AM:
Kevin -- you're on dangerous ground, in my opinion. Some could read your comment and take it as an encouragement to forsake gathering together in intentional Christian community.
Of course we are The Church. And we are to gether together regularly *for* church.
Consider Hebrews 10:25, as well as the numerous verses that speak of how these church services (for lack of a better term) should be conducted and the qualifications of leadership.
This isn't an academic discussion. It's a practical one. I'm afraid you're trying to be academic at the expense of the practical.
If you don't like the term "local church," what do you offer as an alternative? "Koinonia" could work, I suppose....
47. Franklin had the following to say on Oct 8 at 11:22 AM:
"For the sake of your soul" --- Interesting comment; I find it amusing.
I'm not a regular church goer. I have been going to church recently because my sister wants me to go with her, and by the way I know who my Father is, if you are curious. Interestingly enough, I fail to see how Jesus Christ would be interested in going to such a place for the following reasons:
1. Effeminate men -- Just about every guy I see in church is either hen-pecked into going, or they are basically women in men's clothing. Last time I checked, God was not a metro-sexual, but He sure is worshiped by them. HOW WOULD Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, or any MAN fit into the "church" body?
2. Worship Music is Lacking -- There are a million slow songs in worship talking about how BEAUTIFUL God is. That really makes me uncomfortable. Why can we not sing about the God of Justice? The end-of-days Judge? The King who is holy beyond measurement? The Conquerer who will destroy His enemies in the battle of Armageddon? NO!! ---- We must sing about our holy Boyfriend and His sweet, fluffy flock of sheep!
3. Young People are of NO Value --- The elderly in the church have their place. They have much in terms of wisdom, but wisdom is worthless if it is in a box. Young people are the ones who create change in the world; they are the ones who cause revolutions (either good or bad). WHY, WHY are young people looked down upon in church? Why are we so muzzled? Is it because we don't have large quantities of money to tithe? Do we not conform to the church's idealistic expectations? I don't understand why young people are so belittled and overlooked, but I tell you, this last point could kill the church in North America. We may INDEED end up just like Godless Europe!
48. Kyu had the following to say on Oct 8 at 12:03 PM:
When do we stop focusing on ourselves for once and make it all about Him?
We should pause to check our spiritual pulse. There's something wrong when we lose our desire to corporately worship God on His Sabbath. For six days, let's eat, get fed, and work to nurture our spiritual growth through campus fellowship, or your own QTs, or whatever. But on the Sabbath, as long as we have two feet to walk with, whether we're living on campus or vacationing out in the Caribbean, let's get out of our way to use those steps to simply worship God for who He is, wherever we are. Let's rediscover the simple joys of corporate worship, folks; that's what we were created to do. Worship is not an option or a burden for God's people!
Then we can go back to worrying about ourselves the rest of the week.
49. Joshua had the following to say on Oct 8 at 12:11 PM:
Franklin:
I'd say you need to find a church that isn't as you described.
1. As far as masculinity goes, how about a pastor who worked as an independent carpenter for, oh, 8 years or so out of the last 10, who helps his kids raise goats on the side? Or an associate pastor who is a factory supervisor. An outreach/prison ministry leader who's an ex-outlaw biker (still rides a Harley) and Vietnam veteran who served in the USMC? I'm the youth pastor, and also I'm training to work in the construction field.
I wouldn't brag about it for any reason, I'm just saying that not every church is that way. I know of some churches that are very similar to what you've described. And I am glad that God did not call me to those congregations, but rather to the specific fellowship where I am.
2. We've got a pretty good mix of music, although I'd say that the majority of songs do make mention of how great, and how merciful God is. His grace is also pretty common in our usual songs. I think that one reason for grace, mercy, and love to be so common (without going into some Romanticism discussion and that sort of thing), is because they're so necessary in our lives! Yes, God is the Judge, and He's holy beyond measurement, certainly! We definitely don't shy away from songs of that sort. It's just that while those sides of who God is are true, and amazing, it's only by His grace that I'm able to go on in life.
3. I agree that young people should be respected and seen as peers (to a degree) in the body of Christ (by to a degree, I mean a 13-yr.-old shouldn't be given the same authority/responsibility as a person who has faithfully served for 15-20+ yrs). The thing about respect is that if young people want to receive it, we need to give it to everyone else, as well. And, in general, in western society, we seem to keep getting worse from generation to generation at respecting others, especially our elders.
As far as the whole Christian-but-not-church-goer idea goes, it just doesn't line up with Scripture, as far as I've ever been able to tell.
50. John had the following to say on Oct 8 at 3:17 PM:
Joshua,
Well put!
I thank God that I have a ruggid pastor, an ex-football lineman (huge dude) and several other men's men at my church.
These guys are servants, leaders and know how to fix a broken radiator or get a fire going.
51. Julia had the following to say on Oct 8 at 5:28 PM:
As far as I can tell, most of the posters (except for a few) that are disagreeing with the OP are not saying that faithfully attending and serving with a local congregation of beleivers is unnecessary. The disagreement seems to be more about the idea of "formal" membership.
Many churches (including the one I am a member of - though not a "formal" member) identify themselves as non-denominational and have intentionally avoided formal membership. They stress that Christians are not supposed to be joined to an organization - the Church is made up of all believers and is not to be an exclusive club, social organization or charitable organization. The Church has been so fractured and divided in the last 2000 years with Christians lining up on opposite sides to fire darts at one another instead of being bound together in unity that many churches recoil against the idea of formally making themselves a separate chunk of the Body.
I personally do not think formal membership is a bad thing (my church background is C&MA and Baptist growing up and is now non-denominational with a strange Mennonite/Pentacostal flavour in case you were wondering), just that it is unnecessary. I am bound to the people that I worship with in the Spirit and by my will and my heart and my actions (going to church regularly, tithing faithfully, participation in outreach, ministry and in Sunday services and Wednesday prayer meetings,etc.)
I don't need to sign a contract, get re-baptized or stand up in front of the congregation to receive instruction or accountability. I have placed myself under the authority of the elders by attending and identifying with the local assembly. Submission to Godly authority is a matter of the heart and one's actions and is not a matter of a legal contract.
In addition, formal excommunication of a believer who is persisting in unrepentant sin after being corrected by the elders of the church is not best accomplished by merely striking them from a list. The Bible tells us that we should have nothing to do with such a person. This is better accomplished by making it known publically that they are not to be associated with and then shunning them.
A church does not require a building or formal charitable organization status to be a real and living church. There are many "churches" that meet those requirements but do not display the fruits of the Spirit and do not follow the instruction of the Bible. There are many "members" of those "churches" that do not even attend or tithe. That is appalling.
We should assemble ourselves together regularly in a diverse community of believers where we can worship corporately and receive Biblical instruction and accountability. We should be taking part in comunion and tithing faithfully. We should be serving other believers and reaching out to unbelievers. However, why should this mean formal membership?
Membership can be good or bad, and meaningful or not, but a "formal" membership is not required by scripture as far as I can tell.
52. k. had the following to say on Oct 8 at 5:30 PM:
Franklin--I have to say, I found ALL your points mildly amusing. But in particular, I got a laugh out of your comment, "I have been going to church recently because my sister wants me to go with her," which you follow with, "Just about every guy I see in church is either hen-pecked into going..." Hee. Including you, by the sound of it? :)
53. Jethro had the following to say on Oct 8 at 5:34 PM:
Anyone read the book 'How my faith survived the Church'? I haven't read it, but I love the title.
54. nikki had the following to say on Oct 8 at 8:32 PM:
Ted: sorry it's taken so long to get back to your comment. I have read all of those articles in the past and I reread them at your suggestion. There are zero citations of verses where church membership is required or even suggested. As far as the cited benefits of formal church membership, such as accountability and intentional "exclusivity", I think those are very good things...but things that can be achieved regardless of the paperwork and committees. My church doesn't require formal membership, but when a regular attendee is found to be living in sin (a man having an affair, for example), the fact is briefly announced from the pulpit in both services, and a letter is distributed to all the attendees. In the letter is given the details of the sin, what steps the elders have taken to remedy the sin, how the person is to be treated (shunned), and how their family is to be treated (loved).
The church is also very organized in the way it keeps "reins on" the members (regular attenders). There is a formal hierarchy of authority and leadership, and each elder has other men and their families "under" his leadership.
I am not saying my church does everything right (they don't) or should be the template. But I guess it's always been pretty obvious to me that membership is not a prerequisite for church discipline or accountability, and the church my family attends just seems to be a good example of how this can be done. One needn't have an interview and formal conversion statement to be a dedicated, committed "member" of a local church body.
And if all this fails, I will always come back to the fact that there is nothing I've ever read in scripture that would prop up such a viewpoint.
55. NeedACatchyName had the following to say on Oct 8 at 9:52 PM:
Leah said:
If you mean "if the two clash, you should go to your normal church service and not para-church organisation", then I agree.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Thanks for phrasing it better than I did. :) I was mainly referring to the common situation of people who skip out of important church activities to hang out at parachurch activities. I actually had several important roles in a college parachurch organization while I was still in school, so I understand the importance of serving in them. I just don't like to see them elevated above the local church, as some folks are too often prone to do (and I will admit that I was often guilty of that in college).
56. TW had the following to say on Oct 9 at 1:40 PM:
Wow! I've read just about every post and I see that just about everyone, me included, needs to be a better student of the Word. And with that, we are fear the Lord and to submit to those who have authority over us, and how is that implemented, well, it's being covenanted to a local body. Yes, we are all members of the universal body of Christ, for those who have understood the problem of sin, repented from it, and have put their faith in Christ. But, we should also understand that the body has many parts, and that we have been gifted by the Holy Spirit to serve the church. And with that, we should understand that there are "white-heads" and "non-white-heads" that have been called by the Lord to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ at an earlier age than we have and so we should submit to their rule and godly wisdom in order that we can not boast in ourselves, but in the Lord and to build unity in the church. For those who question becoming members, maybe you shouldn't for the time being, cause the church should be an example and a witness of our Saviour, and for those who want to be out of the fold, well, you are missing out and are in sin. I'm afraid to say it, but you need to do some soul searching and some major study of the Scriptures. For those who have grasped the command, then we ought to come alongside these weaker vessels and to instruct them about the benefits and the importance of church membership, especially concerning baptism and celebrating the Lord's supper. I would like to recommend a very good website, www.9marks.org, in which it's geared towards pastors but I see it extremely helpful to lay persons as well. Plus check out the blog site on 9 Marks. Remember, humility is a huge component of Christianity, so prayerfully consider your comments and your life as you get into relationships and churches. May the Lord be glorified in and through this post.
57. nikki had the following to say on Oct 9 at 2:28 PM:
TW, you said: For those who question becoming members, maybe you shouldn't for the time being, cause the church should be an example and a witness of our Saviour, and for those who want to be out of the fold, well, you are missing out and are in sin. Most people here are not talking about being out of the fold. As far as I am concerned, I believe in devotion to and involvement in the local church body, including and not limited to attending corporate worship meetings. I'm certainly not "out of the fold."
I'm afraid to say it, but you need to do some soul searching and some major study of the Scriptures. For those who have grasped the command, then we ought to come alongside these weaker vessels and to instruct them about the benefits and the importance of church membership, especially concerning baptism and celebrating the Lord's supper. I'm not sure what all you are referring to here concerning baptism/communion. But I would say that a "major study of the scriptures" would be recommended for anyone who claims to find "the command" of formal church membership in the Bible! Please show me someplace in Scripture that addresses church membership, not merely church involvement (where you and I probably agree completely).
58. Kevin Cheung had the following to say on Oct 9 at 9:03 PM:
Ted -- First, thank you for the response. Second, You're right, I never meant to say that people shouldn't gather in intentional Christian community, in fact I encourage that a lot. Also I'd like to think that what I say is practical and by that I mean, I do try to live by what I say.
Reading over your post again, I think I totally agree, that those Christians who don't go to church should find a good one and go. The point I wanted to make wasn't that church isn't necessary, rather that it's not enough to just go to church every Sunday. People's spiritual life may die even with that. Too many people are deceived into thinking that they can live lukewarm and complacent lives because of how they spend Sunday morning.
Koinonia... living as the first apostles lived. Is that something we can achieve today? I think God'll do it, but it will take a revival to do so.
Blessings to you and your ministry.
59. TW had the following to say on Oct 10 at 8:21 AM:
Nikki, to address your direct comments to my post and to your earlier posts, I would like to direct you to a very knowledgeable and godly man whose speciality is church membership. You can read more here: http://www.9marks.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID314526|CHID775984|CIID2264222,00.html
In terms of biblical references for church membership, Scripture does not directly set guidelines for membership in a contemporary way, however, it is deduced from Scripture so let me try to explain. We both probably agree that, "Healthy churches are congregations that increasingly reflect the character of God." The Corinthian church was living immoral lives, and so Paul wrote to exclude a man from their assembly. So how can one formally be excluded if that person is not formally included in the first place? (1 Cor. 5:1ff) Two, think about the references to the Lamb's book of life (Phil. 4:3; Rev. 21:27). Three, consider our sinful natures, it is better for us to be consistently hearing the gospel message and to be surrounded by fellow-likeminded believers in order to help us in our sanctification, of course along with the Holy Spirit (Heb. 10:23-25). I agree that you're "not out of the (universal) fold", but how does one obey those in authority, when they aren't committed to a local body? Can't that person in sin move from church to church, without being restored? That's the purpose of church disicipline, moreover church membership, right? Being restored to the faith is the goal, therefore, bringing glory to our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and making that church all the more 'healthier'. Let me conclude with pointing you to a very small, but extremely helpful book, it's called 'What is a Healthy Church?' by Mark Dever. You can pick it up on the 9Marks website for just a few dollars. Again, I hope that this post has been helpful and not burdensome, but if you or others would like more clarity, I hope that I may aid, with the wisdom of the Spirit, in it in later posts as necessary. Soli Deo Gloria! Also, check out these passages, Acts 20:28; Heb. 13:17; 1 Cor. 12:12.
60. obewan had the following to say on Oct 10 at 1:44 PM:
Our church is currently doing the series "Be the Church" by World Vision.
For those who are concerned about "membership" issues, I attended a Plymouth Brethren church for 12 years. They do not have "membership" since everyone who is a christian is a member of the "body."
I know of one married couple though who do not go to any church at all due to disillusionment with all the factions, and distortions etc. They devote countless hours to home study of theology, reading articles on the web, and praying together. I know they are forsaking the assembly, but they are very gifted with research and have many deep spiritual insights. They might be happy with a New Testament style house church someday. That is my prayer for them.
61. TW had the following to say on Oct 10 at 2:51 PM:
Here's an interesting article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/trackandfield/news/story?id=3057203
Read the article first, then read below.
So, Jones' teammate doesn't believe she ought to "suffer the consequences for someone else's bad decisions", which leads me to say this...
Isn't that what we consistently observe in our culture today? Individualism. Even though this person was part of a team, along with Jones, Perry, Edwards, and Gaines, now she wants nothing to do with this guilty individual. She believes she doesn't deserve handing back her medal, even if it's a bronze one, since she hasn't done anything wrong. And so she doesn't want to be associated with her since she's now a confessing doper.
This is a mindset that plagues our society and our culture, and sadly even the church. We are seeing more and more a belief system that we choose our salvation and a church that fits us best or no church at all. We are deceived and ensnared in the sin which puts 'numero uno' first. It's the sin of pride.
And as our churches fall to the clutches of looking more and more like the world and culture around us, the gospel is fumbled and lost, confusing those who are weak and leading people astray.
That's why its critical to be a part of local body of believers, knowing the 'He loved us first and chose us' and to be covenanted to a church that preaches the whole counsel of God and brings glory to the Saviour by having the gospel at the center. Without being a member of a local church, church discipline is somewhat impossible to enforce. It's impossible for the authority figures of the church to know and to shepherd a congregation and likewise for the congregation to be submissive to the elders of the church and therefore be obedient to the Word.
Believers need to be surrounded by other like-minded brothers and sisters in Christ, especially in a time where that individual is struggling spiritually. When one weeps, we all should weep, and when one rejoices, we all should rejoice as well (Rom. 12:15). And as the Holy Spirit convicts them of their sin and comforts those who have repented, we too ought to come alongside that struggling brother or sister in Christ. As we read in Scripture, our goal is to restore that individual to the fold (Matt. 18:15-17).
Our church has in place elders who govern, and a congregation that rules. In our constitution and bylaws, we want to see that brother or sister in church discipline restored in the faith. We want to protect the church from a false witness, keeping it pure, being a good witness to non-Christians, and to bring glory of God by reflecting His holy character.
So, we should see that it is far better to be a part of a local congregation, knowing that it helps us from falling into sin, which grieves that Holy Spirit, and keeps us upright bring glory and honour to our Saviour Jesus Christ.
So, as Jones' teammate grumbles and complains and believes that she doesn't deserve anything but the best for her character, the church should not abandon ship or a shipmate in this example, but should hold fast to the Word, not swerving to the right or to the left. For we have a Great High Priest, who has gone before us and can sympathize with us, yet He is without fault. He loves us and cares for us. The Spirit gifts us for one purpose, to display His glory in the bride of Christ.
Yes, Jones did something awful, but should it mean exclusion for her and for others? Well...only if Jones continues to deny the truth, not wanting to fix it and pay for her mistakes. What about the others? Should they throw stones at the accused? Or are they to take a stand for her? All good questions.
In the church, we are to pray and rebuke, teach and train, if and when necessary, for the one accused, again hoping that the person would be restored. However, if that person continues to refuse help and sins still, well, the church should protect its witness to the world and to those in the church, by excluding that member from the Lord's Table and possibly other things as well. Yes, final judgement is the Lord's, but the church is commanded to judge itself, not for vengeful purposes but for redemptive purposes (1 Cor. 5, 6).
So the church should be concerned about its witness/character, but never forgetting that individual, who has been created by God and who has been uniquely gifted for the body (1 Cor. 12:12).
Even though our culture is more individualistic, our churches shouldn't be. Pastors are to preach the gospel and to equip the saints, while the body is to support each other, growing in the fear and admonition of the Lord, all the while bringing glory unto His Name.
62. TW had the following to say on Oct 12 at 7:29 AM:
Nikki and others, this is what Pastor Dever had to say from the 9Marks blog site today concerning church membership, he says this, speaking to a pastor:
"...preach clearly what a Christian is, and also, as has been suggested, the benefits of clear church membership (e.g., enables the church to encourage care and community [all the one another passages], recognize its responsibilities for one another [I John; John 13:34-35], practice church discipline [Mt. 18; I Cor 5-6])."
Again, not to beat a dead horse, but you and others have been asking for biblical references to church membership, so I thought this would be helpful in your quest to understand the benefits of being committed to a local body of believers, by prayerfully searching the Scriptures and seeking godly wisdom from other faithful and well read elders.