In Praise of the Simple Engagement
by Candice Watters on 09/25/2007 at 3:25 PM
I just had lunch with a friend who has been praying boldly, for husbands for her single friends and for herself, since January 2006. God is faithful. She beamed with joy and love while she talked, her left hand sparkling with her engagement ring, not yet a week old. In listening to her tell the story of her romance, including all the ways God blessed her with answered prayers, I was reminded again that He wants Christian men and women to marry and form Christian families. Few things are as basic, and as valuable, in the eternal realm as that.
Her story included the unadorned moment of engagement. He was doing laundry. She was helping to fold clothes. And suddenly, he was telling her all the reasons he wants her to be his wife; all the ways he wants to serve and love her for the rest of his life as together, they serve Jesus.
He had planned an elaborate proposal-day, weeks into the future. But there, in the midst of everyday chores, he was overcome with the sense that God's timing was now. So he acted.
Contrast that with an email I saw last week. In it, the guy writing told of his own engagement; of all the things he had done to lead up to the big question, including the His-N-Her massages -- can you say TMI?
I wonder, what will he do for an encore? If just getting her to agree to be his wife required cartwheels through hoops ablaze with fire, all the while clutching a carat solitaire attached to the rose between his teeth, how will he celebrate their first anniversary? Or their 10th?
In his defense, he's consistent with the trends. Lots of guys go to extreme lengths when proposing. It's like the newest claim to bragging rights. There are even websites where you can post your story, along with pictures and video footage to prove you're not exaggerating.
I'll take the simple and sincere over the showy any day.
1. Kate said the following at 4:33 PM on Sep 25:
Wow is that beautiful, thank you for sharing!
2. Sam said the following at 4:33 PM on Sep 25:
Can I ask where in Scripture marriage is mandated? Because, given the value which you state is placed on marriage in the "eternal realm", it sounds an awful lot like you're Mormon. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think we'll be married in heaven. Have I missed something vital in Scripture?
3. David Bromberg said the following at 5:43 PM on Sep 25:
I don't know, I mean the story above is certainly sweet, and I understand the point you're trying to make, but I personally think (and this is as a guy) that the proposal should be something romantic and different. I mean, most people will only get to do this once (propose/be proposed to), and it should be something special.
Firstly, I think the timing of it should be a surprise. Certainly, we should be having DTR's and such, so that we know if marriage is a possibility, but I don't understand people who go pick an engagement ring together before doing a proposal. That's just silly in my opinion.
Certainly, the type will depend on the bride-to-be. I wouldn't want to do something big and public if she would be embarassed by it. But I would definitely want to surprise her and wow her, not with money that was put towards the proposal, but with the thought, and care, and preparation. I want her to feel like she's worth me putting in that thought.
4. Hannah said the following at 5:47 PM on Sep 25:
I have a bright shiny engagement ring on my left hand and I too can talk with all sincerity of joy & love & God's faithfulness in honouring the desires of our heart when it comes to Christian marriage.
Our engagement would, by your standards, be elaborate. It was by the fire just before an incredibly romantic candlelit dinner together that my fiance told me, in his words, all the reasons he wanted me to be his wife, all the ways he wanted to serve and love me for the rest of his life as we serve Jesus together, then asked me to marry him.
Our friends tell us ours is perhaps the most romantic engagement they have ever heard. We don't tell the story to be showy. It's part of our journey together and a memorable moment in time when we promised to spend our lives together.
I think the laundry proposal is beautiful. I think my own engagement story is beautiful. Please don't suggest that one way is more sincere. Sincerity is sincerity whether it's simple or elaborate.
5. Erin said the following at 5:54 PM on Sep 25:
Bravo for reading my mind! :p Often, I have trouble explaining to friends that we don't date for the sake of dating, we date for the sake of marriage. Likewise, the thrill of an engagement is not the event of engagement itself (or even the size of the rock!), but the future hope for a lifetime of serving and enjoying each other in marriage.
Maybe we have been brainwashed by scenes from romantic comedies where the only thing worthy of a woman's hand in marriage is a man getting down on one knee on a ferris wheel with a huge diamond and a serenading orchestra, fireworks popping in the background.
Society's need to fantasize about a flashy, to-die-for proposal and consequent undermining of the concept of marriage shows that people have lost sight of the true values of matrimony and the sweet reality of uniting with each other in love for the rest of their lives. True romance comes with promises of a lifetime. Just like the unfading, unconditional love that Christ has for us. Any other romance is just empty by comparison. :)
6. April L. said the following at 6:09 PM on Sep 25:
As just such another bold pray-er, this story encourages me greatly! A proposal in the midst of everyday life is more romantic in my mind than any amount of candles and roses or even diamonds!
* * *
But as for you, Sam...
Well, never mind. In lieu of the rather stern lecture I felt boiling up within me at the impertinence of a naysayer trying to spoil a lovely post, I remembered in time that I should extend grace since, perhaps, you are simply having a difficult day.
And so, out of the thoughtfulness of my caring heart, I do believe I'll add you to my marriage-prayer-list. :)
May God bless you with a husband (that you don't deserve) who will teach you how marriage is a radiant picture of Christ and the church. Is not that eternally significant?
And plenty of beautiful children who will teach you what our Lord meant when He said only those with childlike faith will enter His Kingdom. Is not that eternally significant?
And may God bring people to your door your whole life long asking if you are a Mormon, so that you will have the opportunity to answer them by showing them the Way, the Truth, and the Life. If that isn't eternally significant, I don't know what is.
7. Gene said the following at 6:19 PM on Sep 25:
I generally like Boundless, but your obsession with getting married gets to be truly sickening at times. I've read all your arguments; they're weak at best.
The idea that a 20-something young single Christian who is not yet married and doesn't intend to for a few years is somehow going against God's will is legalism, plain and simple. It's also presumptuous.
Kate nailed it, too. You sound more Mormon than Christian.
8. Fred said the following at 6:35 PM on Sep 25:
I have the same question as Sam. I don't doubt that God thinks marriages are good but "Few things are as basic, and as valuable, in the eternal realm as that." seems to be going a little overboard.
9. Fred said the following at 6:38 PM on Sep 25:
On the subject though I agree, simply and sincere is the way to go.
10. Lauren T. said the following at 7:31 PM on Sep 25:
Now THERE'S a proposal story I like! I hope to find a man who would propose to me while folding laundry.
Sam:
God created Male and Female for the purpose of getting Godly offspring.
Right there in Genesis he says he created men and women to be together as husband and wife:
Gen 2:18
18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
(NIV)
Gen 2:22-24
22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man."
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
(NIV)
Then later he pointed out the purpose he created marriage for (for gaining Godly offspring!), and the consequences involved in not taking Godly marriage seriously:
Mal 2:13-15
13 Another thing you do: You flood the LORD's altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands.
14 You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.
15 Has not [the LORD] made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.
(NIV)
The purpose of marriage is not so we'll be married in Heaven: it's purely for the purpose of glorifying God on Earth, both with our lives and with Godly children who carry God's name on to the next generation. Plus, God made marriage for the good of men and women and he wants the people he created to live in ways that are good for them as well as glorifying to him. That, to my mind, is a big part of the reason for many of the Mosaic Laws.
Why is it that those of us who think marriage is important keep being called Mormon? I don't get it!
11. Leah said the following at 7:34 PM on Sep 25:
Sam: we won't have human marriages in heaven, but earthly marriages are a reflection of the heavenly marriage we will have with Jesus. And the Bible says that *most* people should marry in many, many places. Just jump onto a searchable bible website like biblegateway.com and you'll be able to find heaps.
Re: Original Post-
Can Boundless please stop bashing things which aren't wrong? Just because you prefer a simple proposal does not make a flashy one wrong. Do you have a problem with the fact a guy wants to spoil his girlfriend/fiance? That he wants to show his love for her by doing nice things for her? Why is flashy not sincere? Seriously. Stop trying to stick some sort of "Geniune" "Non-genuine", "Moral" "not moral", "Christian" "Not christian" label onto EVERYTHING.
You say I wonder, what will he do for an encore? If just getting her to agree to be his wife required cartwheels through hoops ablaze with fire, all the while clutching a carat solitaire attached to the rose between his teeth, how will he celebrate their first anniversary? Or their 10th?
Oh, come OFF it. You know as well as I do that he was not REQUIRED to do those things to get her to agree. You would also know (I'd hope) that he's not obliged to continue bettering his last event. It seems to me you've just said all that to belittle him as much as possible, which is entirely unnecessary. I couldn't care less how my boyfriend might propose to me, but if he does something flashy and special, it's sure not because he has to impress me or anything. It's because he loves me. Is there a problem with that?
12. Steve Watters said the following at 8:03 PM on Sep 25:
Sam: I think this is the scripture about marriage in heaven you were asking about:
13. Samuel PG said the following at 8:43 PM on Sep 25:
Sam,
I reread the post and I see what you are saying. Don't misunderstand Candice, though, I am sure she agrees with Jesus that we are not in fact married in Heaven. I think the point she was making is that marrying and raising children to be faithful followers of Christ we are having an impact on eternity.
14. Candice Watters said the following at 8:48 PM on Sep 25:
Sam, what is it about esteeming marriage that makes you think I'm Mormon? Is there something deeper bothering you about my post?
I've known lots of women who doubted marriage would happen for them, who found it easier to lash out against it rather than risk hoping for it. I was one of them! But God does want His people to marry -- He made marriage for us. And therein lies the hope that He is still in the business of making good matches.
It's worth resolving this issue because marriage is the norm both on earth and in heaven. It's just the nature of the bridegroom that will change. For eternity, those who believe in Christ will be married to Him.
From Genesis to Revelation, it's clear that marriage is what most people are called to pursue. As created beings made in God's image, we are made for relationship. The marriage of a God-fearing man and woman is the very picture of God's relationship with His people. In fact in Scripture, it's the most often used metaphor for that divine-to-human relationship. Certainly God wants us to continue to be that picture for a lost world, to His glory.
15. Anna said the following at 9:10 PM on Sep 25:
I agree completely! I think a simple but sweet engagement paves the way for a simple but sacred wedding ceremony. And the whole praying for a husband thing... I have finally come to terms with the idea that that is ok. I've finally allowed myself to start doing it. I think I had this pride issue before, of not wanting to seem desperate. Of thinking that I am somehow glorifying God more by not asking Him for what I want. I can still be content while I'm asking Him to fulfill this desire. Thanks for the encouraging story.
16. Jennifer E. Jones said the following at 9:15 PM on Sep 25:
I too say thanks for sharing. I'm in the same camp of praying for myself and my single friends. While I'm completely full of faith, I had one of those days today where I thought for a moment, "Is this ever really gonna happen?" And then I read your blog. Right on time. Thanks, Candice!
17. Jethro said the following at 10:00 PM on Sep 25:
Quote "I wonder, what will he do for an encore? If just getting her to agree to be his wife required cartwheels through hoops ablaze with fire, all the while clutching a carat solitaire attached to the rose between his teeth, how will he celebrate their first anniversary? Or their 10th?"
So the essence of this argument is that you should start at the bottom and slowly build up because otherwise it will be too hard to follow? How low should we go? What about just throwing her a cheap plastic ring in a box and saying "whadda ya reckon, wanna get hitched?". She will totally be impressed when you treat her better on your 10th anniversary then.
Please. How about just maintaining a high standard all along?
18. BDB said the following at 10:20 PM on Sep 25:
>>He was doing laundry. She was helping to fold clothes. <<
Let me see if I understand this - they were living together and doing laundry, and Boundless is advocating this approach? Wait...I must have missed something.
In the mean time, I think I'll do some laundry...
19. xeres said the following at 10:39 PM on Sep 25:
Jethro and Leah,
What's wrong with simplicity and sobereity toward things? What's up with the idea mindset of simplicity equates dullness and low-quality?
Gene,
I see your point. With that said, there is nothing wrong with encouraging people to get married and encouraging people to respect marriage. By the way, it's Sam, not Kate.
All of you guys, stop read into the post so much. The whole point is that simplicity and going straight to the heart is a good approach to anything, including engagements. Why does everyone here have to make a controversy out of everything?
20. Abbey said the following at 11:30 PM on Sep 25:
I agree that simple is often best, especially when it comes to the engagement and the engagement ring. I've had friends who have gone into serious debt over buying a ring that was "big enough" by standards today. I've also know people who have made it very clear that they want a certain size diamond in their ring. I'll take simple and sincere (and affordable) any day!
21. Rachael said the following at 12:19 AM on Sep 26:
I agree with Hannah, that "Sincerity is sincerity whether it's simple or elaborate."
What counts is the heart.
22. Ro said the following at 1:52 AM on Sep 26:
Thank you for the encouraging post.
Your words are often like desert flowers.
I was personally in need of encouragement, because when I asked some of the older women at church to pray for a husband for me and to support me when it sometimes gets lonely as a single living in a city away from my family, they told me that I was needy for wanting a relationship. That I needed to be a well adjusted women in order to be in a relationship. They told me that I needed to learn to be content. I am fairly content, but was left with compounded feelings of guilt for those moments when it does get a bit lonely. I felt enormously guilty for wanting a relationship, prayed earnestly for God to take away the desires for a relationship, and wished those desires would just go away. I really try very hard to not want a relationship, but find it very hard.
Further, they told me that because of a difficult childhood, at 24, I was emotionally not mature enough or ready for a relationship. They thus stated that God wanted me single for this season, as I wasn't ready. (These women had only met me once, so I felt did not know me well enough to say such discouraging things - I went to them as they are involved with the prayer / care ministry at our church)
Your post has offered so much personal encouragement. If I am not ready, I hope God makes me ready. I am trying my best, but making me ready is up to him. Its so easy to forget that God wants us Christian women married and forming Christian families when we are told that God wants us single, and where it is stressed that we should prioritize praying for contentment over praying for spouses.
Your post was really a ray oflight and much hope. You touch women all over the world with hope and comfort. And at least I don't feel so guilty for praying for a husband now...
Anyway, thank you for the encouragement. I hope you know how much we need it, what an encourager of single women you are, and how rarely we single women hear words of encouragement, even from the church, that makes us feel anything other than very guilty for not being able to rid ourselves of a God-given desire for a husband.
I liken you to the prophets of the Bible, and the Holy women of that day, and glad that technology means that on a completely different continent I have access to your healing words.
23. Fred said the following at 3:41 AM on Sep 26:
So where do you guys fit Paul in?
God provided marriage for people but He didn't make it a commandment (that I know of?). It reflects our relationship with Christ but it is just one way that we can bring glory to God.
What did Paul say was his crown of glory? It wasn't his non-existent wife.
References to marriage between us and Jesus in Heaven is to misconstrue Sam's question, which I think was about being married to each other in Heaven.
I was also wondering where the commandment was to get married.
Candice, the refence to Mormons is because Mormons believe if you are married on earth you are married in Heaven. Consider the following: In the LDS view, based on direct and clear revelations to the Prophet Joseph Smith, we know that marriage is intended to be eternal, that a husband and wife are meant to be sealed together in heaven. Those who have experienced the rich joy of true love between a husband and wife - as I have - should marvel that God would want it any other way. Marriage is one of the greatest and most divine gifts - a gift that is not eradicated in the resurrection. http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/love .shtml#heaven
The LDS said "one of the greatest and most divine gifts" Candice said "Few things are as basic, and as valuable, in the eternal realm as that."
What do you mean by that phrase? What are the things in the 'eternal realm' and what's the order of value?
24. Amanda said the following at 6:03 AM on Sep 26:
I think the point of Candice's "cartwheels" statement was the his -n- hers massages in the email from the guy who had proposed. If they are already all over each other on their first day/nite/whatever of engagement, goodness knows what will happen before their vows. I don't think she meant that the girl required or the guy had to do outrageous/fantastic things to "get her to marry him". Just my opinion. (By the way, Candice, my friend who has been serving God faithfully for years and years, all the while praying for a Godly husband, got engaged a week ago to a FABULOUS, CHRISTIAN man! I think my uncle put it best when talking to me about a future husband. He said, Amanda, just keep busy serving the Lord, and He will take care of the husband part. It's wise advice. Sometimes I thought I could serve the Lord "better" if I was married, but He showed me that I need to do all I can do even now, while I'm still unmarried. And not just wait to serve Him when I am married. :) So, I'm busy for Him and still praying for the husband He would have for me.
Philippians 4:6-7,11
25. Salina said the following at 6:27 AM on Sep 26:
OK, this isn't exactly relevant to this post, but I'm dying for some good Christian advice.
My fiance totally surprised me with a ring I'm not crazy about. It was an amazing engagement, but he had never even asked me what kind of ring I like. It's especially hard because my friends know I had "the perfect ring" picked out since we started dating.
I'm trying not to tell him I feel this way, but we share everything. Is this worth trying to keep a secret about? Candace--help!!!
26. Noelle said the following at 7:28 AM on Sep 26:
Thanks, Candice! I enjoy reading your blogs and articles here on Boundless. Your comments were excellent - and I appreciate your observations on the implications of super-planned engagements.
Amen to taking the pressure off of the guy and proposing over a pile of laundry! :D
27. Nate said the following at 7:44 AM on Sep 26:
April L., I couldn't stop laughing when I read your post. It's the funniest one I've read for awhile. Thanks for brightening my day.
For what its worth, I think Boundless provides a great counter-balance to the worldly messages that our culture bombards us with concerning marriage. It's easy to think of marriage as our consumer culture would have us see it. I'm grateful for the articles and posts that remind me that marriage is God's idea, to be undertaken in obedience to His will. This from a 27 year-old guy who has never dated anyone. Yes, you read that correctly. In the past, I never really liked the idea of marriage (so I never dated). A few years ago, I decided to get off the marriage-bashing bandwagon because it is pretty clear in Scripture that God is for marriage. And I better be for what God is for. About 8 months ago I told God that I would put the idea of marriage on the table and be willing to marry if it is His will for my life. I really feel more freedom to pursue God's will for my life now than I ever have before. When I get to the end of my life, I want to be able to look back and say I followed Christ, whether single or married. So, I can't particularly say that I am praying for a spouse, but I certainly admire those who are. I imagine it takes a lot of faith...
By the way, I was wondering if anyone knows of any men who are praying for wives. I've heard a lot of women say they are praying for husbands, but no men. Maybe the men are just not telling everyone about it. ;)
28. nikki said the following at 8:07 AM on Sep 26:
I think it's dangerous to imply that more thoughtful or more planned is less sincere. Some people just roll that way. But I get your point about loving the simple. I too would love it if my boyfriend just suddenly couldn't help but propose, and it just spilled out into the moment. That would be incredibly romantic. Now it's not that I'd huff and roll my eyes at a candlelight dinner and a carriage ride, either. That shows yet another kind of romance, another side of his appreciation for me. I'm not about to get picky about the way my boyfriend shows his love to me! Whatever is genuine and comes from his heart, I will love. Thank you for this post.
29. Sam said the following at 8:55 AM on Sep 26:
Candice:
Thanks for your response. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify what you meant. I still don't agree with you, but I'm sure you'll agree (or I hope so anyway) that it's ok to disagree on non-essentials.
I did not mean for my comment to come off rude or sharp as some people have taken it. I was simply asking a question to which I wanted an answer.
One other question though: for those of us who aren't married and are somehow inexplicably content in our circumstances yet question some things Boundless says, why are we labeled bitter and "lashing" out? If you took the time to really consider each of us as individuals, particularly me, you'd see that I'm not at all bitter that I'm not married. I know if the Lord wants me to marry, He'll reveal His specific will for my life. Until then, I have Phillippians 4:12-13 down.
I know many women like you describe, though. Just be careful to not lump all single women of a certain age together. Inevitably, you'll get some wrong.
Thanks again! :o)
30. Diana said the following at 9:13 AM on Sep 26:
I think it's totally up to the 2 persons involved; it's a preference for what type of engagement is done. My own was MUCH different from my girlhood dreams--I was proposed to in a car dealership while waiting on his car to be repaired! He didn't plan it then but the conversation went in that direction.
Also, he comes from a different culture/country, where engagement rings are not given; whereas I have a typical American woman mentality regarding rings. He being of limited income at that time, wanted to give me a ring since he knew that was what most American girls would want, and bought me the very best he could afford--a $300 ring.
I LOVE my small, simple ring b/c it came from HIM. It's not the ring that matters, or where/how he proposed---I am overjoyed that this man of God chose ME to be his lifelong companion. I couldn't care less about the status-symbol ring or having a big engagement story to tell. But for those who have that, I love to share their joy too! I think it just all goes back to I Cor. 13 love. When you love a man, you love him, not what he can give you or do for you. It's nice for him to be thoughtful and try to do something nice--of course! But if my engagement story is not as elaborate as some.....I don't mind, because at age 30, GOD answered my decade-long prayer for a man after His heart, and mine!
31. db said the following at 9:25 AM on Sep 26:
Ro-
I am a man, 24 yrs old, and have had a similar experience within my own church. Mine has been less direct, but still the focus is so much on your current state. The aura of this very matter seems to be divided into two groups:
"If you are single, there must be a reason, most likely connected to your maturity, so don't even think about getting married... just date Jesus and don't look forward."
"If you are married, there must be a reason, most likely connected to your maturity, so we are going to minister to you dynamically so that you are equipped until you part this earth."
I hope to not come across as bitter. These are just the general feelings in the air at my local church which I am fairly confident is the general consensus. I love my church and love serving there.
However, when dealing with singles, I think the modern-western church is so scared that if they were to talk about equipping us for marriage that we will all jump up and get married without using the Lord's discernment.
32. Jean said the following at 10:15 AM on Sep 26:
What a lovely post! I too received a simple engagement/proposal. In between our phone conversation, my fiance asked me to be his wife. Nothing elaborate, no grand words...just a simple (yet romantic) "Will you marry me." We've been happily married for four years, and looking forward to even more and better years with him.
All my friends got an elaborate proposal/engagement, and although sometimes I would have liked something elaborate also, when I look back at our situation and where we are now, I am constantly reminded that the proposal is not everything.
33. Justin said the following at 10:37 AM on Sep 26:
Thank you! As a man who is not yet at the stage of being ready for marriage, the thought of having to come up with some mind-blowing "engagement experience" for my not-yet-found love is almost enough to leave her not-yet-found for a few more years ;-)
It is nice to know that simplicity can be as touching (or more so, if I'm reading your post correctly) as an elaborate proposal. Takes a bit of the pressure off the whole thing.
34. BDB said the following at 10:59 AM on Sep 26:
Nate wrote:
>>I never really liked the idea of marriage (so I never dated).<<
Well, then you should get points for not leading anyone on at least.
>>I decided to get off the marriage-bashing bandwagon because it is pretty clear in Scripture that God is for marriage. <<
Ah yes, submitting to Scripture is less painful than waiting for God to hammer you on a subject...
>>By the way, I was wondering if anyone knows of any men who are praying for wives.<<
Yes, they exist.
>>Maybe the men are just not telling everyone about it. ;)<<
Well, that's probably true. If they told people about it, others would try to set them up. Which may or may not be a good thing, depending on your point of view.
Which brings me to a funny thought that probably only regular viewers of the Discovery Military Channel will understand:
If a knight shines his armor, then it's no longer "stealthy."
35. cathy said the following at 11:06 AM on Sep 26:
BDB,
I have done laundry with my fiance, and helped him fold clothes. We are not living together. Neither of us have a dryer and so we meet at the laundromat sometimes to do laundry together.
My proposal was very simple and the timing was a surprise. I thought that I knew beforehand it was coming, but did not expect the way it happened. It was at a favorite water theme park of ours. When we walked in the gate, two friends of ours went to get a locker (and a camera, unbeknownst to me) and when they came back he asked me to hold his backpack and got down on one knee and asked me to marry him. Very simple, sweet, and romantic. It was his way of showing me that he loved me and wanted to spend his life with me. That was important, and he did it in front of my mom and two good friends. He didn't even have a ring he bought picked out. He used an old wedding ring that his mom had sent him and then we went together to pick out an engagement ring.
36. BDB said the following at 11:30 AM on Sep 26:
cathy wrote:
>>Neither of us have a dryer and so we meet at the laundromat sometimes<<
OK - I knew I was missing something. I'd forgotten about things like shared laundry. I probably folded someone's laundry in college, but I can't remember...
37. Sara said the following at 11:52 AM on Sep 26:
Salina: That's a tough one!
I don't know how you'd answer, but maybe you could ask yourself something like, What would you want your fiance to do, if he was the one who had to wear something you gave him, probably for the rest of his life?
There was a show on TV where this exact thing happened. It ended up being resolved when the friends of the engaged girl told the guy that they thought she'd like *this* ring, and he got it instead. I forget how the actual switcheroo happened, but could you get your friends involved?
38. Tine said the following at 12:52 PM on Sep 26:
Candice-
The supposition that a nice, well-thought out romantic proposal will set you up for dissapointment in marriage is so irrational and illogical that it's almost not even worth responding to. I think this forum would better serve young women by encouraging them to see themselves as worth the time, effort, and expense of romance and special attention. But instead you seem to want to tell them to set the expectations for love and marriage low, so as to not be dissapointed. No, no. I prefer to think that my marriage, while being difficult at time, will still be full of spark and romance.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being proposed to doing laundry, although I must admit I personally would feel jipped. But there's nothing inherently wrong with an elaborate proposal either.
That's almost as irrational as suggesting that owning a home on her own diminishes a young single woman's ability to find a good, godly man with which to share her life.
And I really take offense to the way April L answered Sam. Sure Sam misunderstand Candice's point about the eternal worth of the family, but the fact that April L told Sam she didn't deserve a good husband shows a real lack of kindness and grace. April may be praying that Sam finds a husband she doesn't deserve, but I pray that April will learn to season her words with truth and God's grace.
Personal attacks are low and wrong. I have nothing personal against anyone who has written here--but I must speak up when I find unbalanced content on a web site such as this one.
That post is unbalanced and illogical, Candice.
And I also ask you, Candice, to take more care when talking to single women. Don't lump them all into the same category.
And before I get lumped into that category--know that i'm months away from marriage, so i have no axe to grind. no bitterness. no pining here for the end to my singleness. i just so completely disagree with your premise here i couldn't keep quiet.
marriage is wonderful and sacred--but it shouldn't be our ultimate goal in life. Serving God should be.
And I shout it from the rooftops... horray for the elaborate proposal. And horray for the men who spend the extra effort on making us feel special. They're the kinds of men worth marrying anyways.
39. Becky said the following at 1:13 PM on Sep 26:
I believe that God has planned for most people to experience marriage. And here's why:
As I understand it, a marriage between a man and a woman is supposed to be a picture of the love relationship between Jesus and His bride (the Church). Therefore, in order for someone to truly understand this aspect of God's love for them, they need to experience a marriage relationship. This is the thing that I am MOST looking forward to experiencing with the man God has for me - experience a new aspect of God's love for me.
And actually that brings up another question I've struggled with. Do those who never get married miss out on experiencing that aspect of God's love? The apostle Paul, for instance. Was he never able to truly understand what it means for God to love him as a husband loves his wife?
40. Kellie said the following at 1:40 PM on Sep 26:
Does it really matter how one becomes engaged? Personally, I think putting some thought into it is a good idea. I think judging people's enagagement stories is a little much...
41. Candice Watters said the following at 1:43 PM on Sep 26:
First to Sam, I'm glad to hear that much of the discord was just a misunderstanding. Thanks for stopping by to comment again. Although I don't agree that biblical marriage and God's ideas about it are non-essentials, I'm hopeful that we can continue this conversation in the hopes of discovering truth.
Then to Ro, I'm so thankful that you've been encouraged by our esteem for marriage as well as our firm belief that God created marriage for our good and His glory and that praying for it, even boldly, is asking Him for what He wants us to have. It takes faith because it's risky -- there's no guarantee that in our fallen world marriage will happen for everyone. But it's a risk worth taking. Most people eventually do marry and preparing for that and praying for it are wise.
To the women in your church I'd say, if Ro is needy, then so was Adam. And look how God responded to his loneliness (see Genesis 2 for details).
To those who wonder what I meant when I said marriage on earth has eternal implications, I did not mean that human marriages continue on in heaven, but that how we live in covenantal relationship with our spouse has huge implications for the kingdom of God, both now and in the age to come.
To BDB, Yikes, I'm sorry to have given the impression my friend and her boyfriend were living together. That couldn't be further from the truth. They are living pure. She just happened to be over one afternoon and he was in the midst of doing laundry. Sorry about that.
And to Salina, I'm not sure how to answer your ring question. Though I promise to give it some more thought and to talk to some of my mentors about it. I'm genuinely curious what the principled, biblical response should be. I would not advise getting your friends involved. At this point, I think the best thing you can do is pray for God's perspective and be still about it. Just enjoy him and let the ring remind you of his love for you. Getting engaged is only about the ring because our culture has elevated the material aspect beyond what it should be.
42. Erica said the following at 2:38 PM on Sep 26:
Candice is just saying that something an engagement proposal can be something small without the firework. You can be engaged without the big party, band playing in the background and fireworks going off. It can be something small with both parties and their immediate. Its not the party that determine the marriage but sometime small. In her article Candice never mention single should hurry up to get marry.
43. Sara said the following at 2:58 PM on Sep 26:
About the ring thing...
The fact is, that a ring is a very material thing in and of itself, regardless of what it represents. Saying the ring isn't important implies that it would be equally unimportant if Salina simply chose to stop wearing it.
Again, do you think he'd want you to keep this 'secret' from him? I'm sure he just wants to make you happy.
Chances are this won't be the first piece of jewellery you get from him. How far would you go? Maybe his mother has a nice, big white bridal hat for you to kindly submit to wearing...
Maybe the conversation wouldn't have to be very heavy at all. Just, "OK, this is so ridiculous, but..." Chalk it up to a feminine particularity you can both laugh about.
44. DF said the following at 3:03 PM on Sep 26:
To Ro and db:
This is a reminder that sometimes well meaning advice can hurt rather than encourage. If the people were supposed to be encouragers they really missed their mark. I have found that the LORD has permitted me to endure hardships so that I can minister to others who walk the same path. Be encouraged; although they did not intend their advice to harm you, extend to them grace. Realize your Heavenly Father places desires in your heart and then leads you to press into Him. In due time, when you and the mate He has prepared for you are both at the right time in your lives (waiting on the LORD), He will bring the two of you together. In the meantime, you can pray for your mate, remaining faithful to them in all things and remembering that the LORD will meet your needs until that time. This coming from a woman of 53 who went through a divorce and the LORD has shown me that He is my Husband until the time that He will bless me again. There will be a time when you will be able to minister to others from the other side of the equation (once married) so use this experience as a teacher to prepare you for a future ministry opportunity. Be quick to listen and slow to speak, a wise person measures their words. I hope this encouraged you.
DF
45. k. said the following at 3:26 PM on Sep 26:
Salina--First, I should be upfront and say that talking about the "perfect ring" makes me gag. It just ain't my thing. :)
Having said that...this is a guy you're supposed to be able to talk to about money, sex, your innermost thoughts, etc. It would be a bad sign if you felt unable to broach a conversation about something as comparatively minor as jewelry. On the other hand, he probably put a lot of thought and effort into selecting this ring.
Maybe your dream ring needs some revisiting. Or maybe the ring he got is truly hideous. Either way, talking about it seems like a good start. :)
46. xeres said the following at 3:40 PM on Sep 26:
Tine,
I see that you have a point. I don't mind if a man put some thought into the engagement. However, I'm very very and utterly disturbed that you are implying elaborate engagements are more sincere and superior than the ones with simplicity. Why is it that simplicity often equates dullness and low quality? JUst the thought of him asking me to be a life-long companion (his wife) is just something I will have my jaws dropped especially when he could have asked anyone else. Tine, I'm very hurt that you don't seem to appreciate simplicity and that you want to put more pressure on guys to have the Hollywood, high maintianence,perfect engagements than there already is. Guys have too much on their shoulders than there already is.
47. April L. said the following at 3:54 PM on Sep 26:
Sam,
Tine made me rethink it, but I'll still pray for you! Just wanted you to know...I pray earnestly that God will bless ME with a husband I don't deserve. None of us wants what we deserve because...that would be nothing, right? But I do hope I didn't hurt your feelings and am indeed sorry if this was the case.
Tine,
Nothing personal, you understand, but I do think your attack on Candice's post was irrational and illogical. :)
You know, it saddens me that the Enemy would stir such dissension into what could have been a beautiful discussion of romantic love between Christians trying to fulfill God's plan for their lives.
It's one thing to have an opinion on how one wishes to propose or be proposed to, quite another to inject negativity and even ill will into what could be (and should have been) a lighthearted and interesting topic.
I wouldn't think it would be hard to say, "Well, Candice, it IS a sweet story and I AM happy for them, but all the same, what I really DO hope for myself is something GRAND and THRILLING and absolutely EXTRAORDINARY. And, please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't see any problems with an encore! How AMAZING would that be? To be proposed to TWICE?! What more could a girl ask for? Well, anyway, just my two cents..."
And there you have it - a simple, sincere comment that doesn't ruffle any feathers and could possibly continue as a fun conversation by those who (politely) disagree.
* * *
Now for the profound thoughts:
As a single, I have experienced great joy and deep contentment. Embracing my God-given longing for husband, home and children adds a sense of sweet anticipation to my life.
And it was only when I began to daily pray for a husband that I came into a new understanding of living by faith.
Another lesson learned: I now have a parallel excitement - that of expecting Jesus' return. I never said with conviction, "Come Quickly, Lord Jesus!" till I learned to hope for something so earnestly that would bring such good into my life!
48. Marci said the following at 4:27 PM on Sep 26:
Salina,
I know you asked for Candice's advice...but I have a few thoughts about your situation that I'll just throw out there...
If both of you have and honest and open relationship, I see no reason why this would be different. My personal stance would be to tell him gently and lovingly how you feel about the ring.
The ring is going to be on your hand for life. As well, pretending is often a form of lying, and a Christian should not lie (I'm actually being serious when I say this).
You know what? I think chances are he will be relieved that you trusted him enough to tell him. If he really loves you, he probably wants you to like the ring that you'll wear for life.
Here's the thing: if its a material thing (like its ONLY a 0.5 ct when you wanted a 1 ct or higher), I'd give this one to Jesus and realize there are more important things. People do go nuts these days about material goods, and I think it's wise if Christians try to avoid this.
But if you're willing to stay within or around the price range he spent for this ring, then I see nothing with saying "yes" to him, "no" to the ring, and asking if he is willing to get you a style you'd like.
I know for a fact that if my fiancee had given me a ring I didn't like, I would have had to tell him because we've always tried to be honest with each other. And he would've got me something else, and just been thankful that I told him.
How your fiancee handles your response will tell you a LOT about him. For instance, is it evident that he really picked this ring because he thought you'd like it? This is a better scenario. Or is this a sign that he will handle all decisions in marriage primarily by himself and not really be too concerened about your imput? I actually know someone who's fiancee picked a ring without trying to get input from her, or family/friends - and in his case (I want to stress HIS case) this was indicative of the decision-making model he intended to take into their marriage (as was soon revealed through some not so nice events while trying to pick a home together; she broke off her engagement).
I think honesty is the way to go. (If you find yourself lying about your feelings about the ring to family, friends or him, as a Christian, I don't see where there's any other choice but to tell the truth. And not being upfront with him is dishonest, IMO). Honestly.
Best wishes! I'll send up a prayer for you!
49. Sam said the following at 4:28 PM on Sep 26:
April L., you did not hurt my feelings. I laughed when I read what you wrote - but probably not in a good way. We all make assumptions about others when we read their comments. We all need to remember that what we're seeing is a very small portion of someone's life. I'm much more three-dimensional than I appear in the comments section of the Boundless blog.
In any event, thank you for praying for me, especially since you don't know me. I appreciate it.
50. Salina said the following at 4:33 PM on Sep 26:
Candace and Sara:
Thanks for responding to my post--maybe a few more details would aid in your response...
I've done everything within myself to put the issue (that I don't like my engagement ring) at rest, but it's just not happening.
I feel like I'm going to resent him for never asking me what I liked. I don't want it to end up being this big secret that could harm our relationship. I've only told one trusted friend that I was upset.
I've acted the "excited fiance" part when showing the ring to everyone. I know my man needs respect, and it would crush him if he thought he failed in this romantic moment.
I know it's about our future marriage, and not the ring. I also realize that I had certain "expectations" that weren't met. But with that being said, it's still hard to genuinely be happy. I love my fiance, and I don't feel like the ring does him justice. I love jewelry, and it's always been my "thing." Anyone close to me thinks he was trying to be cheap. I know he was trying his best, but he didn't know so difficult.
I would LOVE some advice. The last thing I want to do is devalue the memory of our engagement or hurt him. Thanks guys.
51. Marci said the following at 4:52 PM on Sep 26:
Selina,
You said:"I've acted the "excited fiance" part when showing the ring to everyone. I know my man needs respect, and it would crush him if he thought he failed in this romantic moment."
In the post I wrote just before you posted a response to Candice and Sara, I expressed concern about this very thing. And that's why I think that as a Christian, honesty (though difficult) is the best way to go.
Blessings and Prayers...
52. Tine said the following at 5:01 PM on Sep 26:
April-
While you may not have meant to insult Ms. Sam, sometimes even more than trying to be understood, we have to try to not be misunderstood. I am glad that what I said caused you to think about you had said. That's called honest discussion and healthy conflict--a little thing called iron sharpening iron. Besides, take a peek at one definition of dissension:
“a conflict of people's opinions or actions or characters”
If that’s the kind of dissension we’re talking about, then yes, I’m dissenting. Just because I am a fellow Christian, it doesn't mean I have to accept everyone else's opinions and flatter what I disagree with. It does mean that I should not get personal or mean, which I don't feel that I have been. I even had a Christian sister read it before I posted it to make sure I was not.
I want to challenge you to not just swallow what you read, but to pick it apart and compare it to the Word and what they know to be true. After doing so, if you agree with Candice, then that’s your decision. We’re not talking about fundamental truths here. We’re merely talking about an irrational argument and a wrong assumption.
Let’s look more closely at what I called irrational and illogical:
"I wonder, what will he do for an encore? If just getting her to agree to be his wife required cartwheels through hoops ablaze with fire, all the while clutching a carat solitaire attached to the rose between his teeth, how will he celebrate their first anniversary? Or their 10th?"
This paragraph presumes the man is going to try and fail to top a grand proposal later in their marriage, no doubt resulting in the bride's disappointment. This is the argument that Candice holds up for her praise of the simple proposal.
This argument isn’t based on Scripture, on sound logic or even real life experience.
Furthermore, I have enough faith in my man that he’ll be able to excite and surprise me one our first, tenth and fiftieth wedding anniversaries. We must have more faith in men! The good ones are smart, romantic and capable of rising to the occasion! Let’s not start our relationships with them on the assumption that they will disappoint us.
You see, April, I point to what I call irrational and illogical, and then explain my reasoning behind it. I noticed you didn't bring anything up specifically you felt I said that would fit the definition of those words.
Again, I want to stress--I'm not stirring up whatever your definition of dissension is--I'm thinking critically about what I read and speaking out when I disagree with someone and outlining my case.
I think it’s wonderful that you pray for a husband. However, I feel a better prayer would be “Lord, what do you have for me to do TODAY?” If the answer to that prayer leads you to a man, wonderful. But if not, the center of God’s will is still where you want to be. And unlike some people might lead you to believe, it may NOT include a husband.
Being a Christian isn’t just about spouting platitudes and happy thoughts towards each other—although I must concede there is a place for encouragement. We must think critically about what we read and see—even from a Christian webzine, such as Boundless.
53. Marci said the following at 5:12 PM on Sep 26:
Selina (again - sorry!),
You said:"I love my fiance, and I don't feel like the ring does him justice."
The 'does him justice' part has me thinking...
Is it that its crapy quality? (A quality issue can be remedied in any budget, as long as you're willing to go for perhaps a smaller ring if he can't afford more)
Or is it that its (in your opinion) too small? (This is harder if its a cash issue...and depending on the girl, could possibly be a materialistic thing)
Or is it a combination of both?
OR is it utterly not your style (ie. he gave you three stones; you wanted a solitaire, etc)?
There are other things to consider - is he a student, or established in a job (ie. could he, with careful budgeting, have afforded better? I knew a girl who's fiancee bought her an amethyst when he could've afforded a diamond...and would regularly buy expensive toys and watches for himself. In this case, trust me, what he didn't spend really, really signified something deeper. His life was about his 'toys' and she was on the backburner)
About the student vs. well-employed thing: my financee wants is finishing of a nursing degree and wants to do med school. My best friend was INSISTENT that he buy me a 1 ct at least. And I had to tell her to back off and stop being materialistic. Seriously! There's no way I could sleep at night knowing I'd gotten him to spend money for a 1 ct when he was a STUDENT! So consider these things too.
Another question: is it a cultural thing? Are you from a cultural background where he will be rediculed behind his back by family because they don't think he's up to par? If so, this is a tough one. It's like having a wedding with 30 ppl because you can afford it when its cultral tradition to have all the family and this alone would put you at 200 guests. Do you stay within your means and offend all the family? Or pay more and respect the family? If your view is that marriage is a union of families, I could see why you'd close your eyes, say a prayer, and pay more (even if you can better afford the cost of 30 guests). I'm not gonna pass judgment on whether or not it's right; I'm just saying I can see the reasoning...so if you take this approach with the ring, I could understand it....
Blessings
If your comfortable (
54. Kelly said the following at 6:29 PM on Sep 26:
Just wanted to share my own "proposal" story. I'd been away for a few days and my bf picked me up from the airport and took me home. I'd been in the door all of 5 minutes and was actually exiting the bathroom when he dropped to his knees in front of me and asked me to be his wife.
It was horribly timed, and I was nowhere near ready to be proposed to. (I was tired and exhausted from my trip and wanted to sleep whereas he'd been counting down the hours until I got back.) I smiled and kind of nodded because I didn't want to hurt his feelings and we went looking at rings a few days later. But it wasn't a happy experience at all: the salespeople kept asking us when we were getting married and I had no answers, I was uncomfortable and kept wishing he hadn't asked me yet.
Don't get me wrong, I loved him, and I hoped our relationship was working towards marriage, but it was a proposal that came far too early. And in the end, we broke up, one of the reasons being that I felt he was rushing me into things way too fast.
So what I wanted to say here is: for the guys considering proposing, make sure you've discussed the idea of marriage with the girl first! There is nothing more awful than an 'out of nowhere' proposal if you're not prepared for it!
55. Leah said the following at 6:34 PM on Sep 26:
xeres- you imply that I said there is something wrong with a simple proposal. There is not, and I never said such a thing. I never said a THING about simple proposals. I only said there is nothing wrong with a proposal where the guy has gone to some effort to make it special, and that Boundless should not bash things that are not wrong. I suggest you re-read my post again.
56. Tine said the following at 9:52 PM on Sep 26:
Xeres-
I never once said or implied that a "simple" proposal was inherently wrong. In fact, you didn't even bother to ask me how I was proposed to. I don't feel the compulsion to share the story far and wide, but according to the "hollywood" standards you quote, it was simple indeed. Not being proposed to over a pile of laundry, or on the phone for certain. But it came from the heart and he put lots of thought into it. Which to me is what counts--effort.
I believe that if a man would like a woman to marry him he should make the moment special--whatever that means. If it means a five course meal over candlelight, fine. If it means a walk in the park, fine. If it means over laundry, not fine with me, but certainly fine with some girls--and that's okay! It's perfectly fine.
If you read my posts closely you would see I had a problem with two things, which I won't go into detail again.
I mainly took issue with Candice saying that an elaborate or well thought out proposal sets you up for dissapointment in the "reality" of marriage. I wish we would be a little more optimistic about what marriage is and what men are capable of.
I am truly sorry if I personally hurt you because you think I don't "appreciate simplicity"--whatever that means and wherever you got that idea from I do not know. I live a fairly simple life in a simple one room apartment in a simple town with my simple puppy. I'm planning a simple yet beautiful wedding that resulted from a fairly simple--albeit thought out and precious--proposal. I would recommend you take Sam's advice to heart--don't attack the personhood of a three-dimensional person that you're only seeing one dimension of. If you take issue with what I've said--quote me--and then tell me why I am wrong. Don't make blanket judgments about the kind of person I am.
The last thing you stated was that I want to put more pressure on guys to be "hollywood" and "high maintenance." I never said anything to even remotely imply that. If you knew my fiance you would chuckle. He is the antithesis of all that would be considered "hollywood or high maintenance."
I just wonder why you and others have such low expectations of men that you don't think they can pull off a really awesome proposal AND then top it year after year in marriage by being awesome and sweet and romantic. Not spending a bunch of money and doing crazy things, but just by being romantic. I could tell you story after story after story of the most normal, average, un-hollywood guys I know who have done marvelous things--in their personal and professional lives--and yes even in the way they happened to choose to propose.
You ended with the statement: "Guys have too much on their shoulders than there already is."
I'm not sure, but I think you mean that guys have too much on their shoulders already. They might have a lot on their shoulders, as do women I might add, but I believe in good men and their ability to amaze. I have such faith in men. My father and my fiance, and so many of my male friends and co-workers are such incredible humans and I hold them in high esteem. I don't put more on their shoulders--I just know that they're capable of greatness!
But on the other side of that proverbial coin, women are precious gifts, who when accepting a proposal are promising to be a helpmate to that man for her whole life. I think that's a bit more of a load on a set of shoulders than a cool proposal.
I think when a man puts thought, effort, and time into a proposal to make it unique and special, he's only saying that she means a whole lot to him and he wants to do something to show that.
That's all. =)
57. k. said the following at 10:22 PM on Sep 26:
Sigh, I just went from gagging to flat-out vomiting.
Selina--Of course you want a ring you like. But all this talk about a ring that "does him justice," and your friends thinking was "trying to be cheap," sounds like code for "I wanted a gigantic rock and I didn't get one."
Which, if that's your thing, fine...lots of women like knuckle-buckling rings. But there are almost limitless scenarios in which this ring, that means so much to you now, might assume less significant proportions later in life. Maybe you'll lose it; maybe you'll regret not putting some of that money toward a down payment on a house; maybe your tastes will completely change; maybe you'll have a career in which it's impractical to wear more than a plain band. And ultimately, the man in your life will be judged by many things...when the two of you are old and grey, your friends will probably not still be whispering to each other, "He got her such a cheap ring!"
We all like different things; obviously, jewelry is more important to you than it is to me. Which is completely fine. Best wishes to you, whatever you decide to do! :)
58. Jess said the following at 10:42 PM on Sep 26:
I was proposed to the beginning of Sept. I appreciated what my fiance did so much. It would, I guess, fall under the umbrella of ellaborate but really I didn't mind either way. I appreciated the effort he took and also that he involved dear people that we love. Our friends drove a long way to be there and take pictures. Thankfully, they are amazing photographers so we got studio quality for free. And those are our engagement pictures, taken on the actual day with authentic expressions. :)
My fiance and I are very frugal but the ring he got was out of this world. But I'm pleased that it screams happily engaged from across the room. He felt no pressure from me but took it upon himself. We had talked and looked at bands but he got over a carat. I think he just enjoyed the planning process and getting friends involved. But we're doing a simple wedding and cutting costs where we can.
So really I don't see much correlation at all but its coming from personal perspective. Our world and our faith send conflicting messages consistently. Just keep your focus and consistly re-evaluate your motives becuase they easily de-track.
As for being single when you dream of marriage, I still can remember that stomach/heart feeling. Longing for the future but momentarily enjoying the singlehood. It was an odd empty but antispicating feeling. Hard to describe but ever present. Huh, glad I experienced it because I can still sit back and be ever thankful for the best friend and future lover I have now. And I truly don't deserve him. God has outdone himself and I'm ever grateful. :0) I know that this man is suppose to be my husband, without a doubt.
Salina: And the unlikable ring, come on....if you can't talk to him about this, my dear: Major warning flags. This is about vulnerability, openness, trusting, etc. There might be a deeper issue at hand here that you need to evaluate. The is a "tip of the iceberg" issue where marriage has much larger challenges to face and discuss. It is a disturbing pimple on the face of heart-aching challenges that you two will confront. So get over it and talk or give it back.
59. BDB said the following at 12:19 AM on Sep 27:
Sara wrote:
>>About the ring thing...
The fact is, that a ring is a very material thing in and of itself, regardless of what it represents. <<
That reminds me of a question I was wondering about. When they say an engagement ring should be equivalent to two month's salary, is that before or after taxes?
60. BDB said the following at 12:52 AM on Sep 27:
Salina wrote:
>>I would LOVE some advice. The last thing I want to do is devalue the memory of our engagement or hurt him. Thanks guys.<<
Reminds me of a work story. A woman I know got engaged for the first time at age 38. She's known for working lots of long hours, and some of my staff members who knew her were stunned that she found the time to meet someone. But then they asked, "Princess cut or emerald cut?" A question I had no answer to but thought was very funny.
So, next time I saw the woman at a meeting, I asked her that question. Her response: "Oh, I don't know. Amy knows, we can ask her."
But it illustrated for me that it's not just men who have no clue sometimes.
This might be the wrong thing to do, but here's something I thought of. You could ask him how he chose the setting. If he doesn't know what a "setting" is, then you've found a knowledge problem.
Since I'm a guy, I need to offer a solution. Maybe you can "fix" it by going to look at combination or matching wedding bands, talk about how a stone can be moved from an engagement ring and re-set into a combination wedding band/engagement ring, something like that. If you have a friend who is a jeweler, they may have some ideas of how to gently unwind the situation. For example, it might be a lot less threatening for a jeweler to simply ask, "Did you want to change the setting for the wedding bands?"
When my dad remarried, they had the rings custom-made, which costs about the same. But it is clearly impossible to have the ring made-to-order AND have it purchased secretly before a proposal. Some jewelers will work out a deal for a "loaner" ring to handle this, but I'm sure it requires putting down a hefty deposit.
But I've never actually tried any of these things, it's just idle chatter...
I think Marci's comments about price vs. style are better than anything I can come up with.
61. Fred said the following at 2:00 AM on Sep 27:
Tine,
I don't see a problem even strongly disagreeing but when you say that an argument or post is illogical and irrational most people will assume you are saying that the poster is illogical and irrational, especially when you don't preface it with 'It is my opinion that...'.
Candice was also not referring to nice, well-thought out proposals but ones that go overboard.
My real-life observations have agreed with what Candice said and it is even reflected in people's nature. Our responses lessen the more times we are exposed to the same stimuli. In order to get the same response we need to increase the stimulus. Or think about it like this, if you receive something expensive for your birthday would you be disappointed if you didn't receive something of a similar price next birthday?
The problem is that other factors do come into play so it's not as though you have to give a bigger ring each time but in general if you start by giving a person the moon, you need to next give them the stars.
Obviously this doesn't mean that the proposal shouldn't be nice and well-thought out but that doesn't depend on the price.
Why do would you feel 'jipped' if you don't/didn't get an elaborate proposal?
You said "marriage is wonderful and sacred--but it shouldn't be our ultimate goal in life."
I didn't notice Candice said that.
You also said, "And I shout it from the rooftops... horray for the elaborate proposal. And horray for the men who spend the extra effort on making us feel special. They're the kinds of men worth marrying anyways."
So if a proposal isn't elaborate then the man isn't worthy of a wife?
You said "I think this forum would better serve young women by encouraging them to see themselves as worth the time, effort, and expense of romance and special attention."
Where did Candice say they weren't? Or anyone else on Boundless?
62. Abby said the following at 6:31 AM on Sep 27:
Coming from someone who is actively, almost anxiously, seeking God's will about whether or not to marry a boyfriend of 2 years, and who is in the midst of a college campus that is cropping up with new engagements left and right, I will tell you what my opinion is of stories like the one shared here. I think the guys who propose spur of the moment with no pre-planning whatsoever are impatient. I have several friends who got engaged in those sorts of ways, and all I can think inside my head when I hear the story is "He couldn't have made a little effort for the only time either one of them will become engaged?" I don't think proposals need to be ridiculously expensive or nauseatingly romantic, but I know several women who have generally "lame" engagement stories. I don't think it is bad to have a wild story. I don't think ANYONE expects a future anniversary celebration to top the proposal. In my mind, the proposal is probably the biggest event of a lifetime.
And I really see nothing wrong with looking at engagement rings beforehand. Notice that it was a man who said that idea was ridiculous, and a woman who wrote to say she was disappointed with her engagement ring? My boyfriend and I have looked at rings, and my regret is that we should have talked to my dad about it before we did it. As we discuss it now, I had a hard time making my mind believe we weren't "practically engaged" after we did that. It obviously meant different things to us. I know I won't be on here telling everyone I have a ring that I hate.
63. Diana said the following at 7:30 AM on Sep 27:
It's amazing how material things have a grip on our hearts! Esp. for women, when the seeming pinnacle of everything is to have that ring to show off to everyone. I mentioned my engagement story above, and the cultural context in which it occurred. It was a real lesson in letting go of expectations that aren't essential or truly important, at least for me. As a medical professional, I've been blessed by God with a great job and good finances and a socially respected position. I'm also engaged to a man from a 3rd world country whose economic scale and mentality was formed from growing up under Communism as a child. He doesn't think on the same dollar scale that I think on, because he's never had a salary remotely close to what I make; he's never had to make decisions about luxuries like engagement rings because they were too busy getting by. So when we got engaged and he gave me a tiny, simple diamond; it was the best he could afford, and I was happy with it. I have to be honest and say that my "expectations" were not met--but God allowed me to adjust my expectations and realize the true riches I am gaining in this man's character. For me, marrying outside my own financial "class" is a much needed reality check--has helped me to be much less materialistic.
I know engagement rings and stories are not the focus of a relationship...and everyone's story is different. So I'm happy for those who enjoy their simple, meaningful engagements; AND for those who have a jazzy story to tell us all!
64. JO A. said the following at 9:45 AM on Sep 27:
I got engaged while we were taking a horse-drawn carriage ride through downtown Pittsburgh around Christmas time (the lights and everything were beautiful!). My proposal was lovely, and I was happy that I was surprised and my fiance worked so hard at planning everything. However, I would have been just as happy with any other form of proposal (as long as there wasn't a ton of people around). I was also really surprised by my ring. It is perfect--just what I would have chosen for myself. He took the time to examine my taste and even asked the jeweler what would look best on my finger (because I have really small hands). The most important thing is that the man you marry learns to understand your likes and dislikes and is willing to put forth some effort in doing so. If he just picks what HE thinks is best and ignores/ doesn't pay attention to your feelings , you're going to have some problems later on in marriage...
65. Candice Watters said the following at 10:29 AM on Sep 27:
I've really enjoyed reading all the comments on this post, especially the discussion to help Salina think through her disappointed expectations for a certain perfect engagement ring. (That's the problem with expectations.)
I once had a crush on a man who said, "When I get engaged, I'm going to give the money I would have spent on an engagement ring to a charity, in honor of our engagement." So noble, I thought. But I knew at that moment I could never marry him or any other man with that sentiment. A beautiful, tangible sign of engagement was just too important to me.
And so, yes, at some point you must talk to your fiance about your ring, Salina. But how, when and what you say will make or break the conversation, and possibly, your future together. You must approach him thoughtfully with the utmost respect. Most men are out of their element in a jewelry store and really are doing the best they can. So give him grace and the benefit of the doubt.
Make sure to have the conversation when you have time to talk with no interruptions (bringing it up during an important ball game, for example, might not be a good idea).
Let him know you were wrong to have expectations, but that even beyond those, you still want to have a ring that you love because it's a sign of your love for him.
You must approach this with much prayer. Before you do anything, tell God of your disappointment and ask Him to lead you and possibly even open up an opportunity to talk about it. Ideally your fiance would ask you, "so, do you like the ring?" That would be preferable to having to bring it up: "speaking of the weather, about my ring..."
Also, ask God to help you relinquish your expectations. Even if your fiance says, ok, tell me exactly what you want, you're still liable to be disappointed with the outcome. That's the nature of our fallen world. There's simply no such thing as "the perfect" anything. There's always an element of surprise and the potential for error.
If you are able to surredener your expectations, you're less likely to be disappointed.
May God guide you.
66. God.Is.Love said the following at 10:41 AM on Sep 27:
BDB -
That doesn't necessarily mean they were living together. I head over to my boyfriend house all the time to do house chores (laundry, kitchenwork, etc.).
Also, I wanted to thank you for this post as well :o) My boyfriend and I have been talking about engagement for quite some time now, and I know hes going way overboard with trying to make the big moment creative and unique. I'm very flattered by that, but at the same time I really would just love to take all the planning pressure off of him. The proposal question is so significant and memorable in itself, I dont need all the bells and whistles attached just to make it "romantic". This laundry proposal was very sweet.
I'm thinking of "accidentally" leaving this page up on his computer screen....
67. Jo said the following at 10:47 AM on Sep 27:
Fred, I know what you're saying, but I don't think everyone should have to say "It is my opinion that..." before they comment. Can't we just assume it's their opinion, from the fact that they're saying it? We're all free to disagree.
BDB: Two months salary?! Are you serious?! Wow. I would never expect that. (But I just googled it and yes, apparently that is the rule of thumb!) My idea of a good engagement ring is white gold, a little diamond, simple but classy. And small. I have tiny hands so a huge 'rock' would look genuinely ridiculous on me, I can't think of anything worse. You can easily get a ring like that for much less than two months salary! (Maybe I should tell people this more often, it might make me more desirable...)
68. Marci said the following at 2:27 PM on Sep 27:
God.Is.Love,
On the one hand, I understand the sentiment of helping out with house chores prior to marriage. You are right that these things can be done without living together.
But I would strongly, strongly advise against helping out in such a way prior to marriage. It just seems to me another way that a woman allows the man access to the cow's milk without having officially bought the cow.
Very occasional, thoughtful help is one thing. But I would strongly, strongly discourage women from making such things a habit. I have seen two men put off breaking up with a woman they knew they weren't going to marry because the going was so good! And of course, NO ONE thinks their guy will do this to them...until he does.
I know I probably sound like a grandma, but if you notice, back in those days when there were some pretty strong views of what was and was not acceptable, the women didn't seem to get played for a fool the way they often do now.
When he marries you, then he shall get the benefits that come therewith, is my view!!!
Blessings...
69. BDB said the following at 4:44 PM on Sep 27:
Marci wrote:
>>You are right that these things can be done without living together.
But I would strongly, strongly advise against helping out in such a way prior to marriage. <<
Again I find myself agreeing with Marci. I was half-kidding about the "living together" comment. The thought that actually popped into my head was that they were "playing house."
In my case, since my washer and dryer are in my garage...and folding laundry requires little brain power...I had this picture of someone folding laundry at 11pm on a weeknight in front of the TV...Seems a bit "cozy"...
70. Salina said the following at 4:59 PM on Sep 27:
I've almost came to a conclusion, and first I want to say thanks to Diana. I think I'm going through the same experience when she said...
I have to be honest and say that my "expectations" were not met--but God allowed me to adjust my expectations and realize the true riches I am gaining in this man's character.
I also liked BDB's suggestion about incorporating a little of my taste on the wedding band. And Jess, I don't think you can say this issue is a "tip of the iceburg" ordeal.
I'm putting this out there because I want to handle this the best way possible. Honesty and openness are KEY, but there are many times when we have to wait. If I said everything I was feeling at the moment...whew...that would be letting my flesh take over!
Just within these few days, I've been focusing on all the reasons I love my fiance. It's not about the actual ring, but the love behind it. He did what he knew to do, and he did his best at it.
Yes, I wish he would've consulted with me, and I think it's OK to let him know that at the right time (like Candace said). But after REALLY giving this to God, I see it's more of my pride and selfishness. Thanks for listening guys. The relationship-learning never stops. I praise God that He is there every moment to guide us...without Him, I would never make it!
71. Leah said the following at 6:10 PM on Sep 27:
Re: Marci who said I would strongly, strongly advise against helping out in such a way prior to marriage. And BDB who said I had this picture of someone folding laundry at 11pm on a weeknight in front of the TV...Seems a bit "cozy"...
Why shouldn't we be helping out in this way?? Gosh, next you'll be saying we shouldn't cook for each other, that might be "playing house", or wait, don't help him wash the car!!
Honestly. How on EARTH is helping FOLD CLOTHES going to do any damage unless, of course, you are in the situation BDB gave?
72. Leah said the following at 6:17 PM on Sep 27:
Marci: re "It just seems to me another way that a woman allows the man access to the cow's milk without having officially bought the cow."
Then I suppose men shouldn't pay for our meals when they take us out to dinner. And they shouldn't drive us anywhere. And they shouldn't give us flowers. Because that's just another way that they allow women to access the cow's milk without having officially bought the cow.
Honestly. If you think this type of "milk" is going to satisfy a guy enough to delay marriage, you're sorely mistaken. It's sexual activity which is the big thing. Women "back in those days" didn't get played the fools they do now because they didn't put out sexually!
73. Fred said the following at 6:31 PM on Sep 27:
Jo,
I realise it would get annoying saying 'IMHO' all the time but it tends to take some of the bite out of more aggressive comments.
74. Leah said the following at 6:36 PM on Sep 27:
Fred, I don't think you can tell people *how* to post. I hate it when people say IMHO. I'm like "what, as opposed to your *dishonest* opinion?" OF COURSE it's in their honest opinion! I don't think it takes the bite out of anything, I think it makes the post sound more self-opinionated than anything else.
My point is that things like this mean different things to different people. You can't say "post like this because then you will appear more diplomatic/kinder/whatever" because that is not necessarily true.
75. BDB said the following at 11:12 PM on Sep 27:
Leah wrote:
>>I hate it when people say IMHO. I'm like "what, as opposed to your *dishonest* opinion?" OF COURSE it's in their honest opinion!<<
I thought that meant "humble." I don't understand this texting stuff at all...
76. Jo said the following at 5:31 AM on Sep 28:
thought it meant humble too... but in my experience, when people say that what usually follows is an anything-but-humble opinion!
to be honest (in my honest and humble opinion), i think we just need to phrase our posts in a way that makes it clear we're not aiming to offend or saying 'my opinion is the only perfect one and everyone else is plain wrong'. you don't need to say 'imho' in order to do that, you just need to have a compassionate and humble attitude while you're posting, and try to communicate it in the language you use.
77. Louise said the following at 5:54 AM on Sep 28:
I am a divorcee in her early forties, current dating a two time divorced man in his mid fifties.
Before you holy rollers go off on me about how divorce is terrible for children...neither one of us had children.
I live alone and have a tendency to get behind in my cleaning chores.
This man has helped me do dishes, move furniture in order to clean the floors, has assisted me in car maintenance.
I often assist him at his home as well.
We do these things because we care about each other and one of the mistakes I made in my marriage was not doing enough for my husband BEFORE AND AFTER we are married. I am trying to avoid repeating this mistake.
I thought Christians were supposed to HELP each other.
I guess I was wrong.
78. nikki said the following at 7:33 AM on Sep 28:
Fred/Leah, I think the world would be a much easier place to communicate if people whould say what they think as accurately, briefly and clearly as possible (the ABC of writing) without needing to make their ideas sound more palatable, with acronyms or any other preface. We need to simply say what we think and others need to take it at face value. No taking the bite out of anything or trying to sound less opinionated than we are.
I also think the idea that helping to fold laundry is "access to the cow's milk" is pretty far overboard. Guess I shouldn't be loving or kind or patient with him either...and no rides to and from places for me...no flowers or gifts...and never mind comfort or encouragement either, or friendship for that matter? There's really nothing left of a relationship without the things we give each other. Please. It's sex that the "cow's milk" refers to. I can't see a guy staying in a relationship only because he is getting help folding the laundry. :S
79. Louise said the following at 8:22 AM on Sep 28:
And IMO, the cow/milk metaphor is extremely distasteful.
A woman is not a cow.
So when men get married they "buy a cow in order to obtain the milk"....sounds like the extended purchase of a prostitute's services.
80. Sara said the following at 8:50 AM on Sep 28:
I think the cow metaphor is kind of distasteful, too, though I've used it myself. It does seem to be an apt comparison in some ways...
In any case, the way a metaphor works is to compare similar qualities in two different things. If someone calls you 'honey', you don't get insulted about being called brainless bee spit, you realize the message is 'sweet like honey'.
81. Carrie said the following at 9:28 AM on Sep 28:
Sara . . . I've never thought of "honey" like that before!! That's pretty funny. I'll need to e-mail that to a friend who is getting married soon and says "honey" quite frequently. :)
82. Tami said the following at 10:04 AM on Sep 28:
Leah wrote, "Honestly. How on EARTH is helping FOLD CLOTHES going to do any damage unless, of course, you are in the situation BDB gave?"
Outerwear, no problem. Underwear, that's a bit too personal.
IMHO. ;)
83. Marci said the following at 11:04 AM on Sep 28:
To Leah, Louise, Nikki, and Sara:
I - too - find the whole 'cow/milk' metaphor distasteful. However, I was trying to get straight to the point without gettting to long winded.
It doesn't look like that approach has worked (sigh).
The *point* I was trying to make is that playing house comes in many, many forms - and it is DANGEROUS!
I find it fascinating that you all have seemingly skipped over my comment that I know TWO MEN who have held on to girls they weren't going to marry for this reason. Ladies, it is NOT about your own views. The problem is that some men view doing laundry on a regular basis prior to marriage as "playing house" - such that they do not break of romantic relationships in a timely manner.
Another example: This is why in the church, we tell women to dress modestly, whether or not they think their attire is just fine. This is about the fact that a relationship involves men AND women (just as what a woman wears affects men too whether she likes it or not).
Leah: Meals purchased etc don't apply - that's not playing house. Cooking meals for him all the time would indeed be playing house. I am not saying that we shouldn't be considerate towards men.
Louise: you're sidestepping the issue. This is not about Christian kindness. This is about the dangers of a woman who feels she needs to do a bit of playing house in some way (and ladies in general, lets not pretend we don't know any women who have used this strategy to try to get in with a guy! Occasional help can be fun, but consistent help can be a problem).
As well, Louise, do you think there's any part of you or him that's helping each other to "test the waters" and see if things will work out? I'm not saying this is the case (Far be it from me, for I've never been in that situation); I'm just saying it's worth thinking about. If this were the case, then it would be functioning similar to those who live together prior to marriage (minus the sex).
Nikki: Of course the issue here isn't about sex - it's about playing house!
LADIES, PLEASE NOTE THAT BDB - WHO HAS IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AS A "GUY" - SAYS THAT THE IDEA THAT THIS WAS "PLAYING HOUSE" DID CROSS HIS MIND!!! IT'S NOT ABOUT YOUR BEST INTENTIONS; IT'S ABOUT HOW HE'S GOING TO INTERPRET IT!!!
Blessings
84. Louise said the following at 11:45 AM on Sep 28:
Marci, don't stomp your foot so hard.
You might break a toe.
It's really no one else's business but neither my boyfriend nor me are interesting in living together (married or unmarried), so we are not "testing the waters."
As for helping with laundry and other chores, that apparently didn't hurt Candice Watters' friend, did it?
Maybe it is all how it is interpreted by the receiver of the help...is it "kindness" (which I don't see much of on this board, BTW) or getting "benefits" for free.
85. Marci said the following at 12:11 PM on Sep 28:
Louise,
Candice doesn't say that her friend went over regularly to help with laundry.
I, too, am not saying that occasional help is fine (I have said this a few times in the course of this discussion)
I DO see danger's with regular help - not occasional. And when people have crossed the boundary from 'ocassional' to 'regular' they can tell, whether they deny it initially or not. I knew one of the girls who gave "regular" help to one of the guys....and looking back, she admits that she knew she had gone too far, but was trying to secure a ring, so just kept on agoing!
I suggested in my last post that you can "test waters" without living together - that was my point. Of course you made it clear you two weren't living together.
Blessings....
86. Marci said the following at 12:35 PM on Sep 28:
OOPS,
My second sentence should read "I, too, am not saying that occasional help is a PROBLEM" (last thing I want to do is be confusing)
Blessings
87. BDB said the following at 12:41 PM on Sep 28:
Tami was faster than me...
I was trying to think of a funny response - like, "Are we folding beach towels or, um, "delicates?"
When I went to Home Depot to buy my washer/dryer, they asked me what I wanted. I said "Hot, Warm and Cold water." They took me completely seriously. I had to stop her and say, "OK - explain to me why I'd want 'dual rinse'. Apparently that's for infants and people with allergies. Who knew? I do like the "optimum dry" setting though - seems to work for anything.
I think your biggest danger in "playing house" is that it makes things drag on and on when one of the people is really on the lookout for someone they like better. I've seen these things drag on for years, then the guy meets someone he likes better, breaks up with the long-time girlfriend, and is engaged six months later. Men are at fault, but women are complicit.
IMHO, of course...
88. Amber said the following at 1:05 PM on Sep 28:
I think what makes an engagement special is the heart attitude behind it. If your fiance has prayfully considered what would best bless and serve you in making it a special moment then does it really matter whether he chooses to ask in the kitchen or in a hot air balloon? My engagement, though far from elaborate, was perfect and such a wonderful memory to me, because my fiance (now husband) had obviously thought out how to best bless me. I have had other friends who have gone with more "over the top" proposals, but I don't feel that those should be considered more or less, so long as the guy's motive wasn't to top someone else or have the world's greatest proposal story.
The same would apply when it comes to rings. I personally have been very blessed to have an old ring in the family that my dad gave my guy to use in making my ring. He took the stones and designed the ring and matching wedding band himself and it turned out to be perfect--it wasn't anything like what I had been showing my sister in the jewelry stores, but I wouldn't have asked for anything different. He had been studying my style and taste and from that made me a beautiful ring. Saying that, I think we should avoid judging people based on their proposals or rings. Looking at my ring (which has 5 diamonds, totaling over 2 carats) one could think that my fiance spent too much money. (in reality, he got a $10,000 ring for $500) I would however not cared a bit about the size and when a friend got engaged to a guy who was still in school, I saw her ring with the quarter carat diamond just as beautiful as mine because I could see that her fiance also chose it carefully as to bless her. Its not about the material thing. Its about the man gave it to you and what it symbolizes. When I look at my rings or think about the day I got engaged, my first thought is how blessed and loved I am. Not "I'm so glad he gave me a big ring." (though I do always think it's pretty!;-))
89. k. said the following at 1:26 PM on Sep 28:
Playing house??
A guy (or girl, for that matter) isn't going to stick around because of your dazzling laundry-folding skills. ("Yeah, guys, I know she's not the one, but you should SEE how well she can iron a shirt!") In a serious relationship, occasionally helping someone out with life's daily chores is a good way to get a feel for lots of things: how they work, how clean they like their surroundings, whether they can roll with a certain amount of chaos, etc. Just make sure one party isn't doing all the work...give-and-take is a healthy part of relationships.
And Louise: By calling people "holy rollers," telling them that your personal life is none of their business (as you provide details anyway), lecturing about toe-breaking, and snarking that you haven't seen much kindness here, you come across as a little whiny. (And, since I'm a wild-eyed liberal as far as boundlessline is concerned, I actually agree with some of your points, just not your presentation of them.)
90. xeres said the following at 2:29 PM on Sep 28:
wow, some barbs here. calm down, please. Let's get back to the original idea of the post, which is having an engagement that touches the heart.
91. Jessica said the following at 3:55 PM on Sep 28:
Wow... it's amazing how a simple post about a "simple" engagement can turn into a back alley rumble. I just wanted to say that I thought the story was beautiful and sweet and if a guy chooses to jump out of an airplane and write "Will You Marry Me" in the sky, then I'm sure that will be beautiful and sweet, too.
Can't we just take the post at face value and not fight?
92. Fred said the following at 4:55 PM on Sep 28:
The reason I suggested 'IMHO' (Humble not Honest) was because all of us tend to assume way too much about each other. You can see it in the lack of clarification, people rarely ask, 'is this what you meant?' instead they jump down the other person's throat. I think we've all done it at times but if we try and give people a little leeway when we read their posts and try to think about how people will react to our posts it might help things run a little more smoothly.
I don't mind a blunt argument but not all people do and so we should try and accommodate them.
93. Stephanie said the following at 10:43 AM on Oct 1:
While I have never been engaged, the man I was planning to marry asked me out in an extremely romantic way. Some would say he went way overboard. Did I enjoy it? Yes. Did it seem a little extravagant for just being "asked out?" Maybe. Do I fault him? No. That was just his style.
Regarding engagement, after I broke off the relationship I heard what some of his plans had been for getting engaged. I thought they were way to extravagant. These are my thoughts - yes, the girl loves being made to feel special and that you took time in thinking about the situation, place, etc. On the other hand, this girl cares a lot about not going into debt for the gift, place, way, etc. I had told him multiple times that I would rather save on some of the extravagance and do something else with the money later. Like I said before, it was just his style.
I don't think one way (at least in my case) would have meant more or less sincerity, but I do believe in the beauty of the simple. I also know that he was already trying to out-do what he had done when he asked me out. I wouldn't have wanted him to feel like each thing had to be a little bigger than the one before - that would get really insane!! :)
94. Laura said the following at 5:15 PM on Oct 1:
Candice - thank you so much for this blog!!! I too received a simpler proposal (a whisper in my ear at one of our favourite places), but because everyone else I've spoken to can't grasp the fact that this is more beautiful than an elaborate proposal to me personally, I get a little frustrated! Please don't get me wrong, my fiance's friend proposed to his girlfriend in a park with lit candles, picnic blanket, picnic and a friend hiding in a tree playing romantic music! Both are beautiful, but it really just comes down to personality and preference. If my fiance had proposed with a friend in a tree playing music I probably would have hit him and we would have had some serious conversations ensuing. That's just not my thing. As long as the couple is happy together, have fun with proposing!!!
But thanks again, Candice. I really appreciate this blog!
95. Dan said the following at 5:28 PM on Oct 1:
Just for once I would like to see a post about dating/marrige that doesn't devolve into a bunch of arguments. Or should we all just get together in person and discuss? I am sure it would become somewhat more civil.
96. BDB said the following at 8:15 PM on Oct 1:
Stephanie wrote:
>>I broke off the relationship <<
>>I had told him multiple times that I would rather save on some of the extravagance and do something else with the money later. Like I said before, it was just his style. <<
That's kind of a cautionary tale, now isn't it? The variance in people's responses to this story reminds me of the post a few months about about "love languages." To put it in those terms, doing something extravagant for someone for whom receiving gifts is not important probably won't work. And vice versa.
97. Alex (a guy) said the following at 1:16 PM on Oct 30:
It is funny to see how many posts came in such a short time. I was wondering why you are all praying to be married when you could be out at 6pm meeting people within your local church.
Anyways, Someone was asking about returning a ring. I know personally when I do end up getting my gf a ring I want her to like it. I won't be upset if she wants to get something different. I hope that I would know her style well enough to get something she would like. But regardless, I wouldn't be offended if she wanted a different ring. My priority is that she is happy with it, not my pride in picking out the perfect ring.
I don't mean to be harsh with people but I just find this site to be someone silly sometimes. I know it offers great support to people but I'm not sure I always entirely agree with everything that is discussed.
Judge me as you wish. I trust in Christ to do that.