Attraction to Girly Men?
by Steve Watters on 08/08/2007 at 10:15 AM
Ladies, is it true? Do you really prefer a more girly looking man?
According to an article out of the UK today, "Women searching for the perfect partner avoid macho men in favour of feminine-looking types whom they see as more committed and better parents, research has found." It goes on to say:
Men with masculine features, such as a square jaw, larger nose or smaller eyes were perceived to be less faithful, more detached and worse fathers. Those with fuller lips and wide eyes were seen as being more caring, nurturing and less likely to stray.
Is there hope for the square-jawed, big-nosed, small-eyed single guys out there -- or should they be pursuing plastic surgery in hopes of convincing women that they will be faithful husbands and fathers?
1. DannieA said the following at 10:20 AM on Aug 8:
this blog made me giggle a bit. I think it does not have to do so much with appearance as it does with personality...but maybe I'm wrong. Machoism is just not that attractive anymore. Whether it be because women are searching for a person who would not be a "stereotypical" wife beater, or a womanizer, or now that being a metrosexual is more appealing to the eye, I don't know...
but I don't think women should make judgments solely on how a man physically looks.
2. Mike Theemling said the following at 10:24 AM on Aug 8:
Actually, from what I've read in research (I have to go find the numbers to back up my claim) is that women are more attracted physically to more traditionally masculine features (such as the square chin) but those types of men would tend to be less faithful and not as involved with childrearing as those with more "curved" featuers.
"Is there hope for the square-jawed, big-nosed, small-eyed single guys out there"
Are you kidding? These are the types of men who get the dates from attractive women. They don't need any assistance. It's all the "Average Joe" looking men (including myself) who need that extra push.
Interesting that the article talked about what women SAID they were more interested in. As we all well know, what we say and what we actually do can be completely different. I wonder if a woman were presented with a choice of a traditional "tall, dark and handsome" guy and a more "feminine" one who she would choose to go out with just based on appearances.
3. KendraW said the following at 10:26 AM on Aug 8:
Not true for me, I like guys with strong masculine features. And plastic surgery is definitely the answer.
4. nikki said the following at 10:31 AM on Aug 8:
Nah, I'd say that stat is simply because the "bad boys" and the "players" are the studly, sculpted ones; and they generally are bad-boys and players *because* of their looks. Some guys just look like they belong on a motorcycle or in a bar flirting with every chick there. That's the stereotype based on the way those men tend to behave themselves.
It might sound like a statistical death knell for the studs out there, but I really do NOT think the particularly masculine-looking guys who happen to be decent persons will have a lot of trouble finding spouses. On the contrary, my good Mr. Watters! A studly husband who is also a great dad?? I think we'd find the sign-up list to be at least a mile long. :)
5. Melody said the following at 10:36 AM on Aug 8:
Totally go for the more "beautiful" look than the macho muscles thing. Tall, thin, slightly geeky, lovely eyes. Definitely.
6. JBurke said the following at 10:40 AM on Aug 8:
My husband is a manly man. He's athletic, strong, tough, confident, and very attractive. He'a also an amazing husband and dad... and there's NOTHING girly about him.
7. Brittany said the following at 10:52 AM on Aug 8:
Ok, boys-here's the thing. We women are not as concerned with looks as we are with how you will treat us. A list that most of my friends and I are looking for in guys:
-someone who will make the move and pursue us!!! *BIG poing that a lot of men don't get/do*
-a man who will listen to us and try to make us feel better *not crazy because we are more emotional than you are or try to 'fix' us and our 'feelings'*
-a man who will appreciate us as we are-not try to change us *same for women, I know*
-a man to enjoy us! our company, our looks, our mind, etc...all that cliche stuff rings true, you know?
So the thing of it is, metro boys tend to be more into communication and respecting our feelings. Men who are 'soldiers' or 'mens' men' seem to want us from a more sexual standpoint...or whatever reason: not to make us happy or to consider marriage with. I know it's a generalization, but that's kinda what I've seen.
That's my thoughts, anyway...
8. Mike Theemling said the following at 11:01 AM on Aug 8:
Here we go. I found the study which essentially confirmed that although men with more feminine features were perceived to be better fathers/husbands that the masculine looking men were the ones getting the dates.
9. Karbeth said the following at 11:04 AM on Aug 8:
Silly. The media and stereotypes have given “faithfulness” a certain look. However, it’s the heart of the man that’s my greatest concern. Yes we as ladies react to curtain looks (a mix of personal taste and preferences) but a nose certainly doesn’t make the man! True masculinity and femininity has nothing to do with the size of your eyes. Don’t worry “average Joes’”... you can go a long way with a kind heart...
10. cn said the following at 11:07 AM on Aug 8:
i want a man who looks like a man and acts like a man.
11. JMarie said the following at 11:11 AM on Aug 8:
If it's purely a matter of genetics, you'll find women who go for square jaws and bushy brows, women who prefer long lashes and full lips, and others with preferences somewhere in between. However, I think masculinity is the real draw, and that goes beyond mere physical appearance. For instance, a man with soft, manicured hands is a turn-off, while calluses are intriguing. Leadership; a willingness to really work, whether with people or with his hands; strong faith and a desire for a wife and family...those are the masculine traits that really draw feminine attention.
12. Kelly said the following at 11:13 AM on Aug 8:
I guess I've never really thought one guy looks girly over another. I like manly men. My concern isn't really over if they look girly, but if they act girly. For example, if you visit a tanning bed on a regular basis and shave your arms or legs for non-athletic reasons then that strikes me as a girly guy over looks any day. That's not the kind of guy I want to date.
13. Carrie said the following at 11:18 AM on Aug 8:
Brittany, nikki, and DannieA have said what I was thinking.
A co-worker once told me (and, sadly, this is true): "Women go by what they hear. Men go by what they see."
If you tell us that you think we're awesome, pretty, and other good things we will be all weak-kneed and beside ourselves. We will have a hard time thinking soberly about your motives and may even fool ourselves.
Like DannieA I laughed at this blog post. Based on looks alone -- if there were two standing side by side and no talking was allowed -- I'd pick the one that looks like he could fight off the bad people; no girly men for me.
14. v@v said the following at 11:30 AM on Aug 8:
Can we *not* refer to our fellow brothers with slightly different features as "girly men." I mean really, what does this do for the dude's masculine identity?
15. BDB said the following at 11:34 AM on Aug 8:
Seems like there should be some pontificating that the less masculine a guy looks, the more he needs to take the initiative to make an actual commitment...
16. Ariana said the following at 11:46 AM on Aug 8:
Hmm...I don't think my experience or that of my friends bears this one out. A good-looking man isn't necessarily a girly-looking man (think Hugh Jackman, for instance--Wolverine in X-Men). Of course, people go for the more attractive, girly or not, but the whole metrosexual look (I'm thinking Justin Timberlake) doesn't equal more faithful in my mind or in the minds of any women that I know. In fact, it would sooner mean "player" in my book. Although, if you took out the "metrosexual" element so that you had a man with softer features and maybe a more sensitive air about him (w/o the whole style thing accompanying it), I can see how the study would be right.
17. Dawn said the following at 11:54 AM on Aug 8:
I don't like men who act girly, but I can't deny that I like a man who looks nice and smells nice, who appears to take care of himself. No extraneous shaving is required, but a bath goes a long way!
18. Mandy said the following at 12:07 PM on Aug 8:
A feminine-looking guy? No thank you!! There are way too many guys out there these days that have gotten all girly. Have they forgotten how to be guys or what? I'd definately prefer a more masculine guy because that shows that their embracing their God-given role. Some guys may look more feminine, but they could at least act like a guy!
19. BB said the following at 12:31 PM on Aug 8:
lol, what is is with girls and the "bad people?" Its like they are preparing for this big battle that is about to happen. Why can't girls just enjoy life with a guy.
20. Abby said the following at 1:30 PM on Aug 8:
Personally I think woman are WAY to diverse in their male attraction preferences to be pegged in one box. Besides most women who have a "type" of guy they are attracted to can be swept off their feet by a man who doesn't fit their typical mold at all. Initial attraction can be based on anything. In my opinion it is just wonderful when guys get to be guys. If women push for more feminine characteristics in the men they date (i.e. super sensitivity) I think they really miss out. A manly man (in looks or character) if pursuing the Lord with abandon is a wonderful thing! And as for their parenting potential - If I have a son I hope he has a Dad like that!
21. Helen said the following at 1:34 PM on Aug 8:
I don't like to be critical, but this is a somewhat silly question.
There's never a one-size-fits-all answer to the issue of attraction.
That said, and this goes for both guys and girls, when someone is VERY attractive by the world's standards (i.e physically) we tend to write them off under the assuption that they are full of themselves because they know they look good. Buff, handsome guys tend to be 'victims' of this stereotype.
I believe that a man's character, spirit and personality can shine through his outward appearance, and those are the true criteria for making decisions- at least they should be.
22. P&P said the following at 1:51 PM on Aug 8:
Part of this may be that "manly" men are victims of their own success. Men who are more masculine are perceived as stronger and more attractive on a base level and are given greater approval from other men, which leads to greater confidence with women. As a result, these are the kind of guys who end up as "players" and develop the "ladies man" reputation that might have surface appeal, but no real staying power as a mate.
As a result, more masculine men might have better luck with women in terms of volume, but they don't have luck in finding a long-term mate.
Just a thought.
23. Gina said the following at 2:07 PM on Aug 8:
No girly men for me, thank you! :-) (And no "bad boys," either. Can't stand 'em. Mischievous sense of humor, yes; bad, no.)
I may be in the minority, but just from personal observation, I've seen the "manly men" make better husbands and fathers because they take responsibility . . . and, contrary to stereotype, they CAN be sensitive to their family's needs and feelings.
24. k. said the following at 2:33 PM on Aug 8:
Did Arnold Schwarzenegger post this? "Girly men" is derogatory, both to men and to women.
25. samantha said the following at 3:32 PM on Aug 8:
I like a man who's manly in behaviour- one who is respectable and honorable- but i have to admit that a man with eyeliner (Captain Jack Sparrow) does make me a little weak in the knees. haha!
26. Mer said the following at 3:51 PM on Aug 8:
As in all discussions about what is considered to be attractive today, we can't discount the media's influence on us. We all tend to be attracted to what we are told is attractive - subliminally or otherwise. Think about movies - lots of times the bad guy is a square-jawed dumb jock type, while the good guy is sensitive, poetic, artistic, etc. Girls who are heavily influenced by chick flicks are looking for a guy who can save them from the monster while singing them a love song and complimenting their accessories. Ain't gonna happen (at least not often)!
Guys are not immune to this trend either. Most female actors and singers are so thin that they look more like boys than women - no curves to speak of - even healthy ones. Have you noticed how even formerly healthy looking actresses have wasted away as anorexic-chic becomes the new blond? Ideals of beauty change over time - did you know that Marilyn Monroe fluctuated between a size 14 and a size 16? And Lillian Russell, a very famous actress and singer at the turn-of-the-century (and thought to be the ideal of beauty for many years) weighed over 200 pounds! People in those days were no less ruled by their culture than we are - they just had different messages being sent to them.
To me it seems like the goal of today's culture is to make less and less of a differentiation between male and female - a goal shared by feminists, homosexuals, and heterosexuals who support homosexuality. So men are made up to look more feminine, while women starve themselves and end up looking like little boys. Now obviously this is not universal, but it is certainly widespread and very dangerous. God created men and women to be different, and while those differences can be challenging, they are what make life (and relationships) interesting!
27. Laur said the following at 6:30 PM on Aug 8:
personally, i tend to be attracted (beyond the cute-movie star kind of attracted) to men whose hearts are seeking after God. in my own personal crush-life, if you will, this has resulted in my strong interest in men across the spectrum of culturally expected "good looks" - sometimes it was like "wow he's very attractive" from day one, but that didn't mean much until his heart became evident, while other times it was like waking up to someone's beauty who before you thought didn't look like much to write home about because his tenderness and compassion was wedded so tightly to his manliness and strength of character and person. i think probably most women are looking for "real men" - men who are not ashamed to be men, to initiate and nourish cherish and protect and provide and hunt and gather and all that stuff. if a man is pursuing God and serving Him with his manhood and his life, a godly woman will dig that, even if she doesn't dig him romantically.
that said, if a godly woman is approached by such a man, i think that unless she has a good reason not to, she should be willing to go on a date or whatever - to give him a shot, because women's intuition is far from flawless...
28. James said the following at 6:54 PM on Aug 8:
Carrie said:
"If you tell us that you think we're awesome, pretty, and other good things we will be all weak-kneed and beside ourselves. We will have a hard time thinking soberly about your motives and may even fool ourselves."
And from what I've seen out of the ladies, is that this is ONLY true when you're attracted to the guy FIRST. If not, then those kinds of words (followed up by the initial 'feeler' actions of pursuit) scare y'all OFF like none other.
Please tell me that my experience has primarilly been with the exceptions to the rule, though, if that is the case.
29. Stephen said the following at 5:44 AM on Aug 9:
I don't think that facial structure and physical build determine someone's manliness. Would you say that a square-jawed, muscular weightlifter who shaves his chest, always wears cologne, and has piereced ears (there are plenty of em) more manly than a thinner guy who doesn't? Masculinity is more of how you behave, rather than the way your body is shaped.
30. Carrie said the following at 7:11 AM on Aug 9:
"Its like they are preparing for this big battle that is about to happen."
BB . . . a big battle is going on right now -- the battle for our souls.
Maybe you are one of those people I'm incredibly envious of. You have good, godly parents and the Lord has spared you from any real pain.
That's not my life. I'm quite tired from fighting/fending off things "on my own" (I know, Jesus is the Great Mediator and Protector). It would be nice if someone could take up a battle or two on my behalf.
31. Carrie said the following at 8:23 AM on Aug 9:
James -- what do you mean by "followed up by the initial 'feeler' actions of pursuit"?
Other ladies are going to have to answer as I have never been pursued. At least not by someone "decent".
32. Gayle said the following at 8:55 AM on Aug 9:
Helen said "when someone is VERY attractive by the world's standards (i.e physically) we tend to write them off under the assuption that they are full of themselves because they know they look good. Buff, handsome guys tend to be 'victims' of this stereotype." That is all too true my younger brother a very attractive and masculine man is constantly having to try to prove that he isn't the immoral jock. Just because he looks like a movie star doesn't he acts that way and I wish Christian women wouldn't judge him on his looks.
Side note here I personally find masculine attractive and my boyfriend is tall, dark, and hansome.:)
33. Lady in Waiting said the following at 9:15 AM on Aug 9:
Do men wearing Crocs (shoes) count as girly men? If so, I don't like the girl men.
34. Rebecca said the following at 10:11 AM on Aug 9:
This discussion is both silly and informative. I know that there is a very narrow band of man (in type and nationality) that I consider to be very attractive and I will choose them 100% of the time as the most masculine and interesting men when given the choice on a broad scale.
However, I am currently in a relationship with a man that looks nothing like this ideal. He is very attractive to me because we share interests, he is emotionally and financially stable and, honestly, he thinks I am wonderful. I have learned that I will always think type A is the most "beautiful" but it doesn't mean that I type A is what I am looking for in a marriage partner.
The reality: I am most attracted to men who are not overweight, but not necessarily super fit; who dress neatly and in a way that suits their personality, job and physique; who has short hair and who smiles a lot. Aside from spiritual concerns, the biggest turn off, by far! is a man who is slovenly or sloppy.
So there is my 2 cents:-)
35. Bo said the following at 10:17 AM on Aug 9:
I never thought about girly vs. masculine until I read this. All I knew is that I never wanted a man who was prettier than I am!!
36. Tami said the following at 10:40 AM on Aug 9:
I've known well-meaning Christian guys that, on reflection, weren't all that bad looking, but came on WAY too strong with the flattery in their pursuit of women. Not a matter of the guy being *bad* per se, but... a tad green, and perhaps, er, cheesy.
I like to be noticed and encouraged (who doesn't?), but frankly, if someone (man OR woman) starts off telling me how wonderful I am, I wonder -- "What does this person want from me?" That behavior is not attractive... it's kind of suspicious. Not that Mr. Cheesy (mentioned above) necessarily has bad motives, but the same gut reaction is there.
So a woman backing away might be due to the guy's strength of pursuit relative to the relationship you already have. If you're at a "1" on the interpersonal knowledge level, to go to "10" on the compliments might come off as disingenuous.
But yeah, if I was in the position of having a good (single, of course!) guy friend telling me he really admired my character, style, or talent, that would be pretty charming.
37. Mike Theemling said the following at 10:42 AM on Aug 9:
James you said,
"And from what I've seen out of the ladies, is that this is ONLY true when you're attracted to the guy FIRST. If not, then those kinds of words (followed up by the initial 'feeler' actions of pursuit) scare y'all OFF like none other."
I tend to agree with this. If a woman meets someone who she thinks as "creepy" and he give her a compliment chances are she'll avoid him like the plague rather than be "beside themselves". Generally compliments and pursuits are only received positively if the person pursued also has interest or is at least open to it.
"If you like him it's flirting. If he gives you the creeps, it's sexual harassment" -Anon
Carrie you said,
"Other ladies are going to have to answer as I have never been pursued. At least not by someone 'decent'."
I'm very curious to hear what your definition of "decent" is.
38. Carrie said the following at 1:50 PM on Aug 9:
Mike . . . brace yourself. This could be controversial.
By decent I mean . . . . *drum roll* . . . Christian!
Just so some of you men know, there are those girls out there who have been pursued by someone of your caliber. Not all girls are "picky" and hard to please.
My pastor has advised singles that there are two qualifications for a spouse:
(1) Must love Jesus
(2) Must be of the opposite gender
I'm dying for the chance to follow his advice.
39. Carrie said the following at 1:59 PM on Aug 9:
Ooops! Typo on my part!
"there are those girls out there who have not been pursued by someone of your caliber"
40. Crystal said the following at 4:59 PM on Aug 9:
Okay my two cents. I once dated a guy who didn't want me to touch him for fear that I would mess up his hair. He didn't like to snuggle a lot because then he might potentially mess up his clothes. LOL. I'm serious. I can't stand a man whose too scared to get dirty. I like a masculine ACTING man--regardless of whether he has softer features or more rugged ones.
41. Leah said the following at 7:09 PM on Aug 9:
I would have to disagree with DannieA and a few others: I would have to say a certain degree of machoism is attractive. Key words being "certain degree". Guys, it is attractive if you have a degree of machoism, some type of "male ego". Just don't overdo it! (That's what will make you so very unattractive.)
As for the masculine-looking man losing dates? Yeah, right. Helen was right when saying "when someone is VERY attractive by the world's standards (i.e physically) we tend to write them off under the assuption that they are full of themselves because they know they look good. Buff, handsome guys tend to be 'victims' of this stereotype."
HOWEVER.
I think everyone is getting something confused here: being traditionally "masculine" is NOT necessarily the same as the "Buff, handsome guys". My boyfriend isn't quite the world's standard of the "buff, handsome" guy Helen was referring to (although his gym workouts are definitely helping ;)!) but he's definitely (in my opinion) masculine-looking; which makes him, to me, very attractive.
I don't think traditionally masculine looking guys have anything to worry about.
Now, the stereotypical "buff, good looking guys" Helen was talking about may have a *little* more to worry about.
42. James said the following at 7:19 PM on Aug 9:
Carrie, maybe I'm still green on pursuit, but when I am attracted to a Christian woman, I try and intentionally (though not overtly) spend more time in group activities with common friends. I make note to say hi to her when I see her (not that I'm cold towards other women, or people in general) and ask her how she is doing....things initially that would show an open good-will instead of just a neutral stance. But when I start to try and get to know her, as a person, that's when the ladies usually either clam up or will answer, but then seem to almost disappear or some such.
Essentially, I'm either given the cold shoulder, the disappearing act, or the "you're an awesome guy, but..." speech.
I am a Christian, I do seek the Lord's will, and though I'm far from perfect (I know very much what it's like to be humbled before the Lord and face my total unworthiness and the only words I can bring to mind are "Have mercy on me, Jesus, for I am a sinful man!"), I do deeply desire and pursue personal holiness. I don't know if its my personality (I'm one of those "excitable" types, and working on not being excitable to the point of annoyance, and am very passionate about things I'm involved in), or what, but the most I get from girls is that I'll be a great husband and father SOMEDAY, and to some other girl whose identity they have no clue about (meaning, no one they know).
It's HARD not to feel jaded, and that's something I work on keeping supressed, and quashed not just in public but in private as well. It needs to be given fully over to God, but there are reasons its there that are not entirely my fault (it's my fault if I keep that jaded feeling around, though).
I'm REALLY looking forward to the day I meet that girl who'll see past my faults and choose to love me in acceptance as I'm fully willing to do, and with whom I'll grow in holiness (both of us, together growing as one in the Lord).
Mike, I'd revise your last statement from "creepy" to just "*meh* neutral." I'm not sure if, since I've been saved, I've "creeped out" any girl (well, maybe one, but we both had alot of growing to do and crossed communication wires to sort out, and we're good friends now), but there have certainly been a good number who probably would say nice things about me, but would run the other way if I'd shown romantic interest.
The only comforting thing I can think of is that God is holding me back by providence and that when he releases His hand of restraint, there will be that one girl. I can't really do anything except let out the occasional gripe and hope it isn't heard as whining, and try and give my words focus to exhort and not to just air my frustrations. I can only do what I can do. I cannot change hearts that are not my own by my own will. That is God's business.
43. Leah said the following at 7:23 PM on Aug 9:
Brittany: "metro boys tend to be more into communication and respecting our feelings. Men who are 'soldiers' or 'mens' men' seem to want us from a more sexual standpoint...or whatever reason: not to make us happy or to consider marriage with."
I'm sorry, and don't want to sound harsh, but that is such a horrible, stereotypical generalisation. If we're going for stereotypes, I could say the metro guy is more self-centred and concerned about how he looks than he is worried about me, while the "masculine soldier" will know how to protect and provide for me.
Of course, neither stereotype is necessarily true.
James: you mentioned this scenario:
"If you tell us that you think we're awesome, pretty, and other good things we will be all weak-kneed and beside ourselves. We will have a hard time thinking soberly about your motives and may even fool ourselves."
And from what I've seen out of the ladies, is that this is ONLY true when you're attracted to the guy FIRST. If not, then those kinds of words (followed up by the initial 'feeler' actions of pursuit) scare y'all OFF like none other.
Not really. I completely agree that guys shouldn't be saying those things straight up. Give it a few weeks, months, of getting to know the girl before you compliment her like that. But once she's known you and gotten to know you a bit more as a friend, she doesn't need to be "attracted to the guy first" for those things to make her weak-kneed and beside herself.
Mer, you said "To me it seems like the goal of today's culture is to make less and less of a differentiation between male and female - a goal shared by feminists, homosexuals, and heterosexuals who support homosexuality. So men are made up to look more feminine, while women starve themselves and end up looking like little boys. Now obviously this is not universal, but it is certainly widespread and very dangerous. God created men and women to be different, and while those differences can be challenging, they are what make life (and relationships) interesting!"
SO VERY, VERY TRUE.
I also agree with Mandy and co.- girly, feminine men? No thanks. You are MEN. We want a MAN, not a WOMAN. BE A MAN. You woudln't believe how many women get their hearts broken (or almost broken) because there is a guy who likes her who isn't man enough to PURSUE her! I also have a friend (a girl- a small one at that) who was moving boxes etc with a few guys one day, and she was moving a heavy one and NONE of the guys offered to take it off her. (No possible romantic feelings involved).
44. DannieA said the following at 12:30 AM on Aug 10:
Leah: I think we meant the same thing but used different semantics. The machoism I was referring to was the overdo it type...wife beater, disregard for wife's feelings etc...
I personally like a well dressed man...who likes to work on cars and play sports...so there you go ;)
45. No One said the following at 12:30 AM on Aug 10:
"I also have a friend (a girl- a small one at that) who was moving boxes etc with a few guys one day, and she was moving a heavy one and NONE of the guys offered to take it off her. (No possible romantic feelings involved)."
It sounds to me as if offering to take the box off of her hands would simply be reinforcing negative stereotypes of women that have been prevalent for decades ... suggesting that she is "weak" or "needs help." Not that I believe those words, but I get tired of hearing that chivalry is dead ... it's not dead, it's hiding. I've personally been glared at when I've held the door open for women. So it's not really a problem of men not being men. More like angry feminists making men with honorable intentions deciding it is sometimes easier to take the safe route and treate everyone as "gender-less" rather than rile someone up with traditions that unfortunately, are often said to be old-fashioned and unneccesary.
My two cents.
46. No One said the following at 12:33 AM on Aug 10:
P.S.
Some men are Jacobs, and some are Esaus. Just because you prefer the one that hunts over the ones that likes to cook soup doesn't mean the other one is inferior. :P
47. abby said the following at 7:06 AM on Aug 10:
Hmm. Perhaps it's not that women want feminine men, but that they are in more abundance? I was recently at a conference which brought together thousands of young adults from across the country. As a mentor and I sat back observing the crowd, we could not find any young men whose appearance was "manly." I don't think that young men of today's generation are preparing to be the strong leaders that we generally expect them to be.
Excluding, of course, the macho men reading this blog. ;)
48. Carroe said the following at 7:34 AM on Aug 10:
James,
I'm very sorry that females have jaded you. Maybe I could make you feel a little less jaded with a true story:
There is this guy that I'm friend with, we went to college together. A few weeks ago my car broke down and he took me to and from work -- a 45 minute trek one way -- until my car was fixed. He did this very willingly and wanted nothing in repayment. This confused me greatly. In the time we spent in the car I learned that he had trouble taking initiative. Two weeks later I attempted to make his life easier. I sent him an e-mail and said that I enjoyed spending time with him and that if he wanted to get together that weekend, I'd be up for it. I got a "really, its just friendship on my side". My suspicions were confirmed . . . he was really just a nice guy.
Also, on two different occasions in the last year we have been mistaken for a couple. I was hasty to correct because I thrive on definition. So, it came across as if I was not interested in him just because I had no idea how he actually felt about me. I was just trying to protect myself and not get my hopes up.
So, James, if a girl clams up it may not always be because she just isn't interested. There is a very real possibility she is just trying to not get herself hurt. So, continue cultivating patience and compassion. When finally living with a girl 24/7 you will need it in large amounts! :)
49. Staci said the following at 8:12 AM on Aug 10:
I don't know. I'm not really a looks person, but I have noticed that the majority of guys I'm attracted to have dark, curly hair and big/huge eyes. For me, it's just a personal preference. But, yes, I'm definitely into fuller lips and wide eyes *but* I don't necessarily think of them as being more caring, nurturing and less likely to stray.
I just like more emotional/expressive guys, not like the guys in movies who show no expression but are good-looking. I am not attracted to robots.
Some men act macho/masculine by not showing emotion and it just does not attract me. Why would I want a boulder for a husband?
P.S. In terms of looks, I've never liked the square-jawed, big-nosed, small-eyed single guys out there, but I think I am unusual in this. Plastic surgery certainly won't help since there is bound to be someone who knows how that person looked like before and I would make it a point to find out to see how my children might turn out.
50. Carrie Lea said the following at 8:19 AM on Aug 10:
James,
(Note: I'm not the same person as Carrie, who you were responding to.)
When I was single, I also felt jaded sometimes with regards to the opposite sex. To start with, young single men at my church were exceedingly rare. When one showed up, I went on a "jogging date" with him only to have him commiserate with me about his non-Christian girlfriend. Later, a friend introduced me to a young man she knew. I tried to be friendly and encourage further interest, but was turned off when she told me he was too shy to call me; that he wanted me to call him instead.
(In contrast, my husband, though also shy, impressed me numerous times by going out on a limb to initiate a relationship, tell me how he felt, etc.)
I just want to encourage you to keep on keeping on. I don't understand why your female acquaintances are unimpressed by your having the guts to approach them, but I assure you there are plenty of women out there who appreciate that kind of thing! It only takes one woman. Also, don't forget to pay attention to women who may be showing interest in you; many of us don't like being forced to initiate, and are frustrated when we're interested but never noticed.
Another thought: If it's an option, maybe you could consider visiting other churches. The women in a different group might respond differently to you.
51. Rebecca said the following at 8:25 AM on Aug 10:
I definitely prefer long lashes and full lips. For me, a man with soft, manicured hands is a turn-ON because if we get married, he's going to be touching me with those hands and if there're calloused I want nothing to do with it--Who would? Maybe you find calluses (sp?) intriguing but I certainly don't in the slightest. In fact, I tend to stare at their ugliness.
The point really is to me that masculinity is now being re-defined. Now you don't necessarily look like a man the way you did before where men could only wear certain colors to be considered manly... Now, men wear pink and it's ok/in style where I still see some people find it a turn off or they believe men shouldn't wear pink, apparently because it's effeminate. But it looks good on some guys and the most stylish ones wear it. I'm attracted to style and these men really do their best to look very attractive. How can I help but like them?
Contrariwise, there are men who find it unmasculine to even keep their nails clipped and clean, but let them grow long because apparently, it's effeminate to care for your appearance by clipping your nails regularly and manly to have dirt under the nails. Newsflash: It's isn't effeminate, it's gross to anyone to see men with too-long nails and dirty ones at that. It's basic hygiene (sp?) to clip them regularly and keep them clean. How gross is that? Very.
(Men, please get manicures/pedicures, just to clean your nails, no nail polish required, I beg of you.
Furthermore, if a man can't do something so basic as to clean their nails, I think there are bound to be problems elsewhere. Which means, I refuse to go out with a man like that who can't even do something so basic.
Rant over.
52. Rebecca said the following at 8:54 AM on Aug 10:
TO JAMES:
I read your (smart) post and here is my reply. :-)
I think you're right from what I've seen, too. I may be wrong, but from my experience it is ONLY true when you're attracted to the guy FIRST.
Now, I am nice and if someone compliments me like that I say "Thank you, (insert name of person)." and I am not scared away. Rather, I want to become friends with the person nice enough to compliment me, but it seems to me they take that as I am interested... when I am just being nice. But I think people know when you're attracted to them and when one is just being nice (even though it's because it's the way I would like to be treated).
BTW, I've been rejected before and been called ugly twice (although more times gorgeous), and that taught that, if I ever really want to reject anyone, to do it the way I would've like to have been done to me. For instance, a "Sorry, I'm not interested." would've been great, straightforward and I wouldn't be wondering what it meant like some vague replies I've gotten in the past.
But I digress hugely.
I don't run away from those guys, but I have noticed that most women seem to do that, which I despise, because it is not the right way to get the message across that you're not interested.
Also, some men when they compliment women/me have looked sleazy or lustful when they do it or look me up and down, and I pick up on that right away. Those guys I run away from. and guys that will look from my legs/chest to face and back.
I had a friend who I was not attracted to, but drawn to because of his godly character. I knew he was attracted to me and he complimented me, he even called me beautiful (which I'm not in my eyes, but in his eyes, yes--I could tell he meant it, it just sounded genuine and artless). and some other things and I *know* his heart and that everything he told me then was pretty pure of mind and say it as nicely and genuinely--don't practice and make it sound like a line. BIG mistake. It has to be spontaneous or said matter-of-factly, like "the sky is blue and you're pretty" or something like that. I think you understand.
So, back to the point, I didn't run away from him. We had much in common, actually and he was really nice.
I'd like to point out that if anyone else called me beautiful and didn't mean it, I would be *furious* because I know that I am not. I am against people calling other's beautiful who are not. Not everyone is beautiful physically, or else why would even the Bible make that distinction--Rachel, Sara, Joseph and others.
I am sorry, but I have to tell the truth in love: I think your experiences are the general thing, and my reaction to others the exception. People certainly find it strange from the looks I've gotten and the majority of women don't approve at all.
There was one or more points I had wanted to mention, but I've forgotten them.
Women in general seem to mistakenly believe if a guy shows interest and she is not interested, the correct thing is to run off and this couldn't be farther from the truth.
The whole "Do unto others as you would have them to unto you" applies here. So, whatever that is to a woman, that is how she should react to being pursued by a man she is not attracted to or does not want to be pursued by.
I hope this helps. I feel like the post was too lengthy. :-P
53. Marie said the following at 9:07 AM on Aug 10:
James,
Your wrote: "I cannot change hearts that are not my own by my own will. That is God's business."
But you can ask God to change their hearts! In the Bible, it reads that God directs the heart of a person.
(I'm sorry I forgot the verse.) Then, there is another verse that reads something like "Whatever you ask of God, in faith and/or if you believe it will come true, it will." In Jesus Christ's name, of course.
So, if you ask God for a girl/woman to like you/be romantically drawn to you and believe she will, then she will.
I've done this before (with men) of course and it's worked for me, so I'm certain it will work for you.
Also, I've done this with a person who hardly liked anyone but I had to spend time with, and at the end she liked me. Made the whole evening go by smoother, really. :-)
54. Marie said the following at 9:17 AM on Aug 10:
No One:
"P.S.
Some men are Jacobs, and some are Esaus. Just because you prefer the one that hunts over the ones that likes to cook soup doesn't mean the other one is inferior. :P"
I love your post! It's so true!!!
Personally, I like men who can cook but I have mixed feelings about the hunting. I have to admit, I have a soft spot for Jacob and his relationship with his mother, which brings another point:
I tend to like guys who have a good relationship with their mothers, because they seem to treat me/other women better than the ones who do not (have a good relationship) with them.
55. James said the following at 9:51 AM on Aug 10:
Marie, that scripture verse you reference has implied with it that it is done when we pray in accordance with the Father's Will.
I know I can ask Him to change hearts, but it is still Him who does it and does it according to His Will. And, knowing that, I pray accordingly.
56. Carrie said the following at 10:37 AM on Aug 10:
Pray, yes, but is there a point at which we are given divine permission to be stubborn??
(i.e. sit the girl down, be honest, complimentary, and don't leave without a real answer)
57. BDB said the following at 11:03 AM on Aug 10:
No One said:
>>It sounds to me as if offering to take the box off of her hands would simply be reinforcing negative stereotypes of women that have been prevalent for decades ... suggesting that she is "weak" or "needs help." <<
Hmmm...since I'm the old guy here, let me just say that in my entire life, I've only had two women complain. Though when the female assistants in one department want a "warehouse guy" to bring them their office supplies, like a box of copy paper, often one of the women in the warehouse will put on her hard hat, get a cart, and deliver it to them, just to rub their nose in their weakness.
(I try to stay out of those little contests - usually I don't hear about them until they're already facing off with one another and I walk into it already in progress.)
Though there's no reason to "hide it." What will happen is that the women who want to do it themselves will simply not tell you when they're going to move something. There's been a number of times when I've been out of the office for a day only to return and discover that some of the women on staff moved a bunch of furniture or file boxes around while I was gone. Sometimes they'd rather just do it their way so that it's organized "properly."
58. Bo said the following at 1:16 PM on Aug 10:
BB said, "lol, what is is with girls and the "bad people?" Its like they are preparing for this big battle that is about to happen."
BB, I am assuming you are a guy, and if you are a woman, then I praise the Lord you haven't had any reason to fear "bad people."
That said, I don't think men understand what it means to be a woman. Just walking down the street or being in Target can sometimes be a scary experience depending on the type of person you come into contact with. Women always need to be on physical guard making sure that she is aware of the people around her in case the situation is not safe. It's just part of being a woman.
And if a woman has ever been attacked or violated in any way, this awareness (and fear) is increased by a bamillion.
I've only been married for a few weeks, but I can't tell you what a relief it is to walk down the street late at night on his arm and not be afraid of potential bad situations (not that he is Superman [well, he is in my eyes!], but I just feel safer being with a big, strong man). He is looking after me, much better than I ever did as a single woman.
To put it all into context, I wasn't attracted to him because he looked a certain way or because I thought he could protect me. I was attracted to him because he DID protect me! Because when he told me he wanted to date, he said that he didn't think there was any other man in the world who could take care of me like he could.
He isn't overly built and his jaw isn't overly broad, but his heart is huge and his desire to be a man and act like one is enormous.
59. Zeph Greenwell said the following at 2:12 PM on Aug 10:
This article was posted in UK today, which is not only a secular pop magazine but a British secular pop magazine! Anything it says has no relevance to us Americans across the pond.
60. Katie said the following at 3:05 PM on Aug 10:
James, I thought I'd offer a little bit of a different perspective from Rebecca as to why girls sometimes seem to "freak out" and run the other way when guys compliment them, pursue them, etc. First, a disclaimer: I'm not saying that this is necessarily the most biblical response, but it is a common one, especially among Christians (just trying to show you the way girls think :) ). I've done it before, as have a lot of my friends, and I would welcome any feedback concerning its appropriateness and effectiveness!
To start off, I don't know the circumstances of your particular cases, so I'm not criticizing you or even saying that you do this. But in my experience, and the experience of a lot of my friends, nothing is more frustrating than a guy WHO I BARELY KNOW coming up to me and either giving me a compliment or pursuing me in some way. I am not saying that I only enjoy compliments and advances from guys that I am close friends with, but for me to feel blessed I at least need to previously have known his name and had some sort of interaction with him. Otherwise, it feels like the guys is being a bit of a creep, even if nothing is further from his thoughts. As a woman, there is nothing more degrading than feeling like the only reason someone is pursuing you is because of how you look. It must be a hard balance for guys to figure out, because girls love to be made to feel beautiful, but hate to feel lusted after!
Here is another possibility. Most girls in Christian circles have had it hammered into them that guys need a firm "no" because otherwise they keep holding onto hope. I have never been a guy, so I don't know if this is true, but it does affect how I handle some situations. If a girl really is not interested in someone, for whatever reason, and she knows that the guy likes her, she will try and be a little colder than usual and put some distance between them on purpose. I'm not saying that this is right, but in a way, it's an effort to love the guy as best we can. I can't tell you how many times I have heard guys say that they are confused because a girl says she doesn't return their feelings, but acts interested. In reality, she might just be treating him as she would any friend, but he interprets it differently because he likes her. I really don't want to do that to guys, and am almost afraid to be as friendly as I normally would. Personally, if the tables were turned, I would rather be left with no doubt of the guys feelings and be left free to be able to move on faster.
61. Leah said the following at 9:46 AM on Aug 12:
No One:
These were Christian guys and a Christian girl. They shouldn't have been scared of a possible feminist reaction. If a man was scared of offering to take a heavy box off a 4 foot 6 inch girl, I'd tell him to get a backbone. So yes, it is a matter of men not being men (whether it's from fear or laziness or simple thoughtlessness is another matter).
62. Leah said the following at 9:49 AM on Aug 12:
No One: I'm sure Jacob didn't leave his wives to do the heavy moving on their own. Don't pull conclusions about me from such insubstantial evidence.
63. Jo said the following at 2:32 PM on Aug 12:
Zeph: the article was from the Daily Telegraph, which is a British newspaper, not a pop magazine. And to say that because it's British it has no relevance whatsoever to a US audience is pretty narrow minded. Our culture (that is British culture) largely resembles yours, in fact largely follows yours. And since so many others have found the observations relevant, it must strike a chord with more than just us Brits.
64. Jo said the following at 3:30 PM on Aug 12:
In reply to James and others...
My take on the 'women run away if you compliment them and they're not already attracted' - that has some truth I think but it's not the whole story.
I think (some) guys need to be careful not to reveal their intentions too early. I have two friends who met through me and have a lot in common and who I think would get on well. But the guy made the mistake of making it clear pretty early that he was quite interested in her. Hence, when he later invited her out somewhere as friends, she was reluctant to hang out with him on her own because she didn't want to lead him on. Had he kept his feelings to himself for a while, she probably would have happily met up with him and as they got to know each other something may have developed. By jumping too early he's effectively ruined his chances. In essence, he's forced her to make a premature decision, and now the possibility of her growing to like him 'that way' is greatly reduced. I've seen this guy make the same mistake before, and I've seen it with other guys too.
As well as being pushed into an early decision (which will almost certainly go against the guy) here's also the point that someone else mentioned - if someone who barely knows me expresses a great deal of interest, I question what it is he's attracted to. If someone who knows me better expresses that same amount of interest, it's a lot more flattering and much less suspicious.
I absolutely believe that guys should be making the first move and I, like most women, long to be 'chased' by a wonderful man. So I'm not saying don't do it - I'm saying be restrained and be friendly without complimenting TOO much and making your feelings too clear too early. Once the woman has got to know you and feels comfortable with you, a) you'll have a better idea of how your advances might be received and b) you'll have a much better chance of them being received well.
65. No One said the following at 8:30 PM on Aug 13:
Leah,
"These were Christian guys and a Christian girl. They shouldn't have been scared of a possible feminist reaction. If a man was scared of offering to take a heavy box off a 4 foot 6 inch girl, I'd tell him to get a backbone. So yes, it is a matter of men not being men (whether it's from fear or laziness or simple thoughtlessness is another matter)."
I know some Christian women who declare themselves "feminists," although the definition of the word seems to vary from person to person. You are also mistaking my post for advocating fear, when I was simply explaining the fact that it is sometimes easier to treat both sexes the same than to try and revive the idea of chivalry.
BDB said "What will happen is that the women who want to do it themselves will simply not tell you when they're going to move something. There's been a number of times when I've been out of the office for a day only to return and discover that some of the women on staff moved a bunch of furniture or file boxes around while I was gone. Sometimes they'd rather just do it their way so that it's organized 'properly.'"
It is possible that your friend was surrounded by jerks, but I find it likely that they would have been glad to help if she had just spoken up. If they were moving boxes, it's pretty likely that they were all just concentrating on getting the job done. Men think differently than women, I think that's a given. I can think of fifty better examples of "men not being men" other than your friend getting her feelings hurt because the several men she was working with failed to read her mind and see she needed help moving a box.
66. Ivette said the following at 10:45 PM on Aug 13:
Odd post. I think that metro sexuality has reached new heights for both sexes may taint our tastes. As for what I prefer - masculinity in their being: confidence, leadership, boldness and kindness. Square jaw or sans square jaw.
67. BDB said the following at 1:13 AM on Aug 14:
No one wrote:
>>other than your friend getting her feelings hurt because the several men she was working with failed to read her mind and see she needed help moving a box.<<
Well, let me also say that I'd encourage men to work it into their routine all the time. It does take practice. For example, the most diverse group of people I run into is at the post office where I have a PO Box. All us old-timers use the far door to the mailbox section. Every day I or someone else is opening that door for someone. This is in part because the sun-tinting on the windows means that people outside can't see when someone inside is about to open the door into their nose. No woman has ever complained about me opening a door there.
A few weeks ago, I was seeing a friend off at the airport. She's extremely independent, and usually travels alone for business, moving her own luggage around. I just naturally asked if she wanted me to get the luggage for her and she just slid it over to me. Yes, I know she can do it herself, and at the other end of the flight, she'd have to do it herself. But it was a matter of simple courtesy.
68. Farmer Dan (fake name) said the following at 12:00 PM on Dec 23:
I hope this isn't a girly shirt.