Mom's the Word for Oxford Women
by Candice Watters on 07/19/2007 at 9:43 AM
Female students at Oxford are embracing the reality feminists have long denied. So reports fellow student Lucy Tobin in The Independent. In "Mum's the Word: Why Oxford Students are Putting Motherhood before Career" she writes,
Feminists may be shocked. But while students do not see the glass ceiling as intact, there is a strong belief that women can only soar to the career heights of men if they choose not to have children.
The twist is that they're OK with that.
Some female undergraduates believe that women can't have it all, so they should not bother trying. Amy Butler, 20, a chemistry student at Lady Margaret Hall, Oxford, wants to work in forensic chemistry, and identifies archaeological research as a potential specialism. But she believes she will put her career aside when she is ready to settle down. Butler would refuse to take a job requiring her to spend long periods away from home because she believes it would affect her relationship with a partner, and, later, the children. "I am ambitious in that I would like to have a stable, well-paid job that I enjoy, but I don't care about advancing up the career ladder. I would willingly sacrifice job promotion for family's sake," she says.
It's a shift in attitudes that frustrates the old guard feminists, but one their future children will undoubtedly praise. Maybe the fact that so many of today's college women were themselves raised largely in daycare while their own activist-minded mothers went off to break ceilings that they're against doing the same with their own children. They know first hand what it's like to spend long days and even summers away from their homes, their back yards, their mums.
"When you are in a career for a few years, you reach a point when a possible career change or pay rise comes up," she says. "Then you have to choose whether you want a family or not." ... The reality, they say, is black and white – you can have children and a mediocre career or be a top CEO and sacrifice a family. ...
Chloe Mattison, 20 ... thinks she has to choose because having it all is a myth: she wants to bring up her children herself, so would not be able to work full-time. " Society thinks that having a career is a much more praiseworthy thing to do than having children and bringing up a family. But that's wrong."
1. Ivy said the following at 10:32 AM on Jul 19:
I couldn't agree more. I'm working towards my BA, but know that any career I may have one day will stop the day I have a baby (God willing, of course). And raising my children will definitely be one of the most rewarding things I will ever do.
2. MB said the following at 11:22 AM on Jul 19:
Kudos to Chloe: "She wants to bring up her children herself..." What a novel idea (in today's world)!
3. Erica said the following at 12:02 PM on Jul 19:
Hi Candice, Why every week you have to write an article about women sacrificing their career to have children? I notice every week you publish these articles and it sparks a debate that never ends. Everyweek these single women scream out in blogs in anger or wanting children and no one is their for them to marry. Kudos to those women who is leaving the office to stay home with their children. Could you write more blogs that tells stay at home how to avoid boredom and be fulfilled. A housewife told once if I know how boring it gets being at home all day.
Can you mention in these articles how to be fulfilled when staying home with hyperactive toddlers? How to make an adjustment in thought from office to home? What to do when there is not much adults around to talk to during the days?
Some woman giving up career and staying home is natural. Other struggles to make the transition from career to being a stay at home mom.
4. Sarah said the following at 12:47 PM on Jul 19:
Sadly, I'm not surprised that so much of society is dissapointed in women like this, who chose family over career. Juggling freelancing in the entertainment field and graduate studies I often run up against similiar protests: "Why would I throw away all my talent just to "settle down?" ( And I can't even count the funny looks I get when I tell them that part of my motivation for a Master's Degree is further stability when, Lord willing I have a husband and family.)
I just don't see trading a top line salary for family as "settling", who said only single career women win Oscars? Besides I'd rather have lopsided art projects on my shelves than Oscars anyways. I don't look at it as "throwing in the towel," it's an easy sacrifice- if one at all.
5. P&P said the following at 1:38 PM on Jul 19:
Another quote from the article:
"There's a sense that men need to play a role in raising a family."
Amen.
On another note, this is a "cute" article, but not of any real substance. The author is a student at Oxbford and seems to be indulging in the all too common practice of "me and my friends" journalism that has become rampant when it comes to reporting women's issues.
I also think that although a genuine survey of women at this age would be interesting, they also haven't spent time in the work force or the "real world," for that matter.
As much as these women would like to stay at home, some will not be able to for economic reasons, others will discover that they prefer being in the work force rather than at home and unfortunately some of these women will find themselves single mothers by no choice of their own.
It's a nice idea that they want the elusive "work-life balance," but as Winston Churchill once said: "The proof is in the pudding."
6. DannieA said the following at 2:44 PM on Jul 19:
Balance is good. I don't think women should back down from furthering their degrees and careers, however, I don't believe they should solely focus on that, that their family and relationships suffer.
God forbid if one day....divorce or death happens, it's good for both parties in the marriage to have degrees in which they can seek out a job if crisis arises if one of them stays home.
7. Anu (formerly known as Tomi) said the following at 3:25 PM on Jul 19:
Yes, this is definitely "me and my friends" journalism. Also, in most of the Boundless posts on this type of topic, there are always mentions of feminists being "frustrated" or "angry and surprised" at the more traditional choices supposedly more and more women are making. Yet, there are never any actual quotes or comments in the post from the feminists supposedly opposing these usually statistic-less "trends."
My guess as to why? Its because FEMINISTS DON'T CARE whether Beth wants to be a stay-at-home mother and Joann wants to become partner at a law firm. Thats because feminism is about the freedom to choose, and the freedom to engage in the pursuit of happiness without society's view of gender putting illegitimate limits on opportunity and success.
If you go to a feminist blog or magazine, you'll find nary an article looking down their noses, tsk tsking, or feeling sorry for women who embrace traditional roles--very unlike the attitude at at Boundless. Thats because feminism is about female solidarity and supporting every woman in her choices! The only criticism is leveled at women who try and shame others into making the same decisions they make. **Sigh...**
8. Becky said the following at 5:44 PM on Jul 19:
Anu,
Look no further than feminists like Linda Hirshman to find a true angry feminist who believes very strongly that educated women owe it to the world to work outside the home and to not do so is a betrayal of women everywhere. Her book is Get to Work.
Feminists like Hirshman DO care, and care very strongly what women do. What you're talking about is called "choice feminism," and there are plenty of outspoken feminists, like Hirshman, who think that choice feminism is a load of bunk.
9. John D. said the following at 7:59 PM on Jul 19:
To previous posts concerned with "statistical information" or actual survey data, perhaps you should reconsider the point of what is being talked about. So what if this is written by a student? So what if women at this very early stage in life, 'untested in the working world' are making decisions early on about their careers?
I would call myself neither a traditionalist nor a feminist. However, I do support people who are willing to take responsibility for their lives at a young age. Too many people waste too MUCH (not too LITTLE) time trying to decide what voice they should listen to or who they will be swayed by. For christians, we are instructed to listen to the still, small voice that guides and directs us which way to go. Maybe that is what has happened with these women.
Okay, so these women are putting their future relationships first? They should be commended for making a decision at all. But to criticize the subjects or the article cited simply for supporting one view or another, just because it might be disagreeable to some, is fruitless. It builds no one up and it only screams more confusion into the lives of women still trying to determine the right way for their lives.
And if feminism doesn't give women room to choose, it lacks the fundamental element reflected in our faith, which is based on our FREE choice to either accept God or to turn away from him.
10. Anu (formerly known as Tomi) said the following at 10:47 PM on Jul 19:
Becky--Yes, there are outspoken and mainstream feminists who think that stay-at-home moms do a disservice to society and to equality, but it is by no stretch even close to being a consensus, there are various opinions within the feminist community, if you will. I would even argue that those who agree with Hirshman to be in the minority. If you talk to the "average" feminist you would likely get a very different take on the issue than her book. But I still challenge people to go to feminist blogs and magazines and see how many articles there are chastising/demeaning women who choose to stay at home, especially in proportion to how often feminists who push women to work too much outside the home is used as a straw man in conservative discussions.
I disagree with people like Hirshman because when you break it down, the essence of her argument is blaming women themselves for gender discrimination and other women's limited opportunities. She sounds like someone who has made certain choices and is mad that everyone else hasn't followed her example. To me, this is no different than when people (even some Black people) blame Blacks and other minorities for racism in roundabout ways. Example: "Maybe there would be less racism without BET or if Black people themselves didn't say the n-word so much". Its the same thing.
11. V said the following at 1:25 AM on Jul 20:
I'm a medical student at Oxford, and among many of my peers, it is accepted that we will not work full time for our entire working lives. Indeed, there are concerns that the National Health Service is going to face a staffing crisis as my generation (in which women make up the majority of students) reach their childbearing years.
However, although this expectation exists, it is still very much frowned upon - especially by the male dominated consultants and college tutors. When asked at a formal dinner where I expected to be in 10 years time my reply that I hoped to be married with children was met with scorn. Many senior academics and clinicians see this as a waste of my "potential". Furthermore, women who intend to have children are very much encouraged to enter the world of General Practice (Family Doctors), rather than the more 'highly' thought of fields of hospital medicine and surgery.
Attitudes are changing. As a generation in Oxford we are aware that we cannot have it all. In response I think many of my peers will be married and have children later. The attitudes of our seniors however remain very different, which may well make our path rockier than we expect.
12. Tim said the following at 6:58 AM on Jul 20:
"I am ambitious in that I would like to have a stable, well-paid job that I enjoy, but I don't care about advancing up the career ladder. I would willingly sacrifice job promotion for family's sake."
I realize not everyone is in the position to put family first (due to economice concerns, etc.), but wouldn't it be amazing if this was the attitude of BOTH women and men?
13. Marci said the following at 7:11 AM on Jul 20:
Hello All!
Yeah, the 'me and my friends' journalism is a bit of an issue. But, I certainly subscribe to the idea that women should worry less about the relationship between having children and promotions at work. I keep saying: Christian women should let God promote them when the time is right, if its his will.
This means that a woman should do everything she can to prepare for her career (if she's led to one) AND pay attention to when she and her husband think children should come. Commit it to prayer, and with the leading of the Holy Spirit, decide when to have children (if you have a child before planned, children are a blessing...and it was no surprise to God, so he will guide you still). If people at work look down on you/refuse to promote you, still pray! If God sees fit for you to work part time after you have a child OR to work fulltime after you have a child OR to be promoted et cetera, he will CERTAINLY let you know, and help work out the details!
Feminism shouldn't be a replacement for relying on God, so this whole [and what follows is my paraphrase] 'I can't possibly be promoted if I have a child' view doesn't wash. Christians should be doing their best to fulfill their calling(s) with guidance from the Lord, whether they are called to be a stay at home mom or work full time and be a great mom too, or any other combination. Also, the idea that women should pick careers based predominantly on the family life they think it will afford is a dangerous one: I know a woman who decided not to be a lawyer, but be a teacher because it was better for family. But she's neglected her calling, and now she's miserable! And she's not the only woman I know in this sad situation.
When people start saying choose a career to fit your family (which, by the way, they don't seem to be telling men...implying by default that a woman's role in the home/in regards to the wellbeing of her children is more important than a man's ... which to my knowledge is NOT Biblically supported, and is causing havoc in Christian homes), it seems to me they are essentially telling women to take over God's role. But these women may not have yet met their intended, or may not know the full plan God has for their ministry and life. For instance, what if the lady who was called to be a lawyer ended up married to a man whose profession allowed both parties more flexiblity to be with their children? But she made a choice - she inadvertently played 'mini God', but didn't have our 'big' God's knowledge, and look at the devastating result. Now she's going through a process of restoration - and I still pray God will bless her with a husband and family - but trying to go back and do what she knew she was led to do has caused her to loose time.
The key thing is to be in God's will. If you feel strongly God's led you to a certain profession, don't abandon it because humans just can't think as big as God does, and see where you've been called to as "problematic" for a wife and mother. Trust God! Let HIM work out the finer details as he guides your life, and the life of your husband together. As long as you're not stuck on following secular society's notions of success and God is always first in your decision making, you should be just fine. Of course! Because you're in his will.
Blessing to All!
14. k. said the following at 7:15 AM on Jul 20:
Let's talk about...the last Harry Potter book coming out! Or the new tattoo ink that's designed to be removable, or the Israeli release of 250 Palestinian prisoners. Basically, ANYTHING but yet another "Hey folks, moms want to stay home...and those killjoy feminists are furious, heehee!" blurb. Please, throw a little variety into the mix!!
15. Lucie said the following at 7:43 AM on Jul 20:
There is another aspect to the career question that I have rarely, if ever, seen addressed - the fact that the number of "exciting, fulfilling, well-paying," etc. jobs available are not in proportion to the number of people - men and women - who want them or are even qualified for them. This is another type of "glass ceiling" that has nothing to do with gender bias, and both sexes should be reminded of its reality, though I'm not advocating that they sacrifice their ambitions in a defeatist attitude.
16. Robert J Espe said the following at 8:37 AM on Jul 20:
I don't understood how people get bored at home. I spend all week at work waiting to punch out so I can go home. Home is where my life happens. It's not all fun and games, there are usually chores waiting for me, but I'd rather be building up my home than sitting at my desk any day. Maybe people just need to find hobbies that can fulfill you while at home (books, music, art). If you need company, that is what neighbors are for. Drop a lunch invitation in a neighbor's mailbox.
17. Ted Slater said the following at 8:42 AM on Jul 20:
K. -- I've been hearing a LOT about Harry Potter over the past few weeks. Am I the only one who would love to talk about something else, including "killjoy feminists"? Have you not gotten your fill of the HP marketing machine at work?
18. John said the following at 9:29 AM on Jul 20:
I think it's time for a "how can Christians read Harry Potter in good conscience when it's about witchcraft which the Bible calls an abomination" thread ...
19. P&P said the following at 9:32 AM on Jul 20:
What Candice and a number of other women and men on this blog love to forget is that "killjoy feminists" are the reason why women can vote, get an advanced education, seek (but not always get) equal pay, leave an abusive relationship or even own property!
Yes, I agree that it seems as though every week Candice likes to find a "nyah , nyah, feminism is evil and stay at home motherhood is the one true path."
Can we find another women's issue to talk about? How about the portrayl of women in the Harry Potter novels?
20. JMarie said the following at 9:43 AM on Jul 20:
I'm with Robert J. Espe - I don't understand how people can get bored at home to such an extent that they're willing to put their children in someone else's care. A friend of mine recently decided to go back to teaching because she "isn't cut out to be a stay at home mom". Her husband works even longer hours, but thankfully she has her mother, mother-in-law and an aunt able to take turns caring for her son. Now there's another baby on the way, so we'll see if that changes anything. On the other hand, maybe that's a part of the calling that others have mentioned. I feel called to be a SAHM. I'm an introvert, requiring less social interaction to be happy, and I'm most fulfilled when I'm working around my home, even when it's chores like cooking and cleaning. However, add cooking and cleaning to a 40 hour work week, and I can't imagine trying to balance that with a family life.
21. k. said the following at 10:10 AM on Jul 20:
Ted -- Oh c'mon, that still leaves you with two other possible topics! :)
Boundless spends a considerable chunk of time rehashing the same old subjects: modesty, moms at home, men stepping up to the plate in relationships, evolution is laughable, global warming is a scam, blah blah blah. Certainly all of those are things worthy of discussion...I'm just saying, there are many OTHER topics out there, too.
22. J-Twinkle said the following at 11:40 AM on Jul 20:
other topics to discuss possibly:
why there are more responses on marriage and relationships and fewer ones on living the Christian life?
positions on definitions of Godly masculinity and feminity?
23. Kellie said the following at 3:05 PM on Jul 20:
With all of these blogs towards moms staying at home...what does Boundless think of the stay-at-home dad? Or both parents working part-time so someone is always home with the kids? There's many more options out there than just mom stays home and dad works.
24. Loris said the following at 9:03 AM on Jul 23:
I intend to stay home once I have a baby, but I also intend to use that time to launch the home business I've wanted to try for some time. I think the answer to getting bored at home is to turn something you love to do into a part-time business.
25. Esther said the following at 11:52 AM on Jul 23:
Here's an added wrinkle to the career woman dilemma- what if you don't have time to both work and date? I am approaching an incredibly busy time in my work (70+ hrs/week). I have also recently been getting acquainted with a young man I met through church. Yet I know that for 3-4 months I will be far too busy to do much socializing. At this tender stage in a relationship, I'm not sure how he'll react- though I've warned him of what is coming. I'm all for being a stay at home mom when that time comes, but I feel like now I'm sacrificing even the potential for that because of the demands of my job.
I don't want to be whining. I like my job, it was what I trained to do, it just seems funny that this "free and independent" time of life that I'm supposed to be in doesn't even allow time for relationships, especially of a godly sort.
26. BDB said the following at 1:09 PM on Jul 23:
Esther wrote:
>>I'm not sure how he'll react- though I've warned him of what is coming. <<
Sounds like you work in accounting and it's budget season. Or you work in retail and it's holiday season, which doesn't require as much training, now that I think about it.
Yes, you do get to see how he reacts! An intellectual match will be more likely to understand, by the way. But if he's just looking for someone to party with...well...