Wrong Picture?
by Suzanne Hadley Gosselin on 06/09/2007 at 10:31 PM
One of my favorite things about writing for Boundless is designer Michael Heath's art. I love how his designs give the articles life and personality. That said, I think this week's art is a little off. The image accompanying my article "You're a Great Guy, But..." depicts a glamorous, eye-rolling girl snubbing a guy who appears to be a video-game-playing loser (not that those two things go together necessarily).
While it's pretty easy to see why this beautiful woman might reject the advances of the guy pictured, my article deals with cases where the reason for rejection is not so obvious. The guys I had in mind are good men with godly qualities; the women, ordinary girls with good hearts. The reason a woman says no is not always as apparent as in this picture, which is why I wrote the article. Sometimes her "no" is so beautiful that it resembles a "yes." No eye-rolling here.
So if the illustration gave you the impression that the article was about clueless guys and the heartless women who reject them, don't be fooled! My intention was to encourage guys who have experienced "the wall" when they attempt to pursue and to challenge women to be direct when men approach them.
1. Amy Jane said the following at 12:59 AM on Jun 10:
My experience related to this topic (since you asked...):
(It involves my "You're a nice guy..." story ending in marriage, but please don't use it as an excuse to nag the dear lady who hates to be the bad-guy.)
I gave the fellow the rehearsed, "I'm not ready" line, without any of the complements (I knew about mixed-messages, and feeling mixed-up myself I didn't want to go there).
We had one of those "emotionally involved" friendships that was naturally progressing to romance, but faster than I felt ready for (I wasn't ready to call it courting, but I also hadn't felt God saying "no."), and I was trying to get off the ride.
He listened, very respectfully, then asked cautiously, "What if I can change your mind?" I laughed nervously, and (I don't know *where* this came from. Could it have been God? I honestly don't know.) I said, "You're welcome to try."
I guess the lesson I get from this (or want to offer?) is that if the guy has known the girl a while and they can really talk about it, it wouldn't hurt for him to clarify by re-stating what she said, and gently encouraging her to say (or let him say for her) some version of "no" outright, if that's what she's really saying.
This will remove any questions that might come up later as to what exactly was said.
If I'd said 'No,' to Jay, I think he (respectfully) would never have called me again. We'd have seen each other at frisbee intramurals and Tuesday Vespers, and that would have been it.
Maybe I just needed to know he was serious.
I suppose that may make me look flaky and duplicitous, but I don't want it to. I think it was just plain fear (and maybe pride), and not wanting to do the wrong thing.
My husband, in the pattern that has continued through the last 7-years, carefully learned where my heart was, and took the risk off of me as much as he could.
2. Anna said the following at 5:19 PM on Jun 10:
I think the challenge for women to be direct is much-needed. With all of our encouragement and prodding guys to be risk-takers and speak up about relationships, I think it's important that women respect their risk-taking by being considerately direct with them, too. Good article. :)
3. Stephen said the following at 5:50 PM on Jun 10:
Several articles I have seen on Boundless come across to me as placing more than a fair share of blame on men for the increasingly aging Christian singles crowd.
While the causes raised elsewhere concerning men (lack of initiative, immaturity, etc.) are valid in some cases, my personal experience leads me to believe that unrealistic expectations and a strong desire for independence among women is an issue of equal importance. To be sure, these issues have been mentioned on Boundless before, but the photo accompanying your post presents a view of the Christian man as an a clueless child, which is far from the typical case.
Thank you Suzanne for the clarification concerning the photo.
4. Emma said the following at 8:45 PM on Jun 10:
I guess that's the question I myself have. What if a girl is confused in the situation herself? How should she respond if a strong yes or no isn't appropriate but she does not wish to lead a guy on? If feelings really point somewhere in the middle?
5. Jill said the following at 9:51 PM on Jun 10:
I think the picture is fine. Your article calls for honesty on a girl's part--well let's be honest. The simple truth of why she rejects is because she does not want to be pursued by the buddy. Excuses are excuses, usually to make the rejection less painful because we women have tender hearts and don't want people to suffer. I think that the majority of rejections boil down to the simple fact that she doesn't want to....As a woman, I rarely hear of a rejection or do a rejection myself because I'm just not sure about the guy. In those cases, the girl is pretty up front about her uncertainty. So I think the picture is capturing what women really feel ninety eight percent of the time, whether or not they want to admit to it.
6. Katie said the following at 8:58 AM on Jun 11:
Regarding mixed messages... Guys, if a girl were to tell you that she appreciated you asking, but she wasn't interested, would you be confused, or would you understand it as an absolute no?
7. Jason said the following at 9:26 AM on Jun 11:
Katie, in my experience even an absolute no can be a mixed message (I had to talk her into it ;)
But I think that saying you appreciate being asked, but that you're not interested is a great response. It's perfectly clear, while still being gentle.
8. NeedACatchyName said the following at 10:20 AM on Jun 11:
Katie: I think you need make it very clear whether you're not interested at all, or you're not interested at the current moment but might be interested later. Guys don't respond to hints and implications very well, and we just need to hear a definite answer. Beware though, if you tell a guy that you're not interested at the current moment but might be later, some guys will continue to strongly pursue you as if nothing happened, and that's something you might want to avoid.
On the other hand, what if a girl says that she's absolutely not interested, but then change her mind later down the road? This is something I've always wondered about myself. Most guys aren't going to ask out a girl a second time if they said that they were absolutely not interested the first time, since we figure that it would be rude to ask a second time since you've already made your feelings clear once. The Boundless editors are probably going to disagree with me on this one, since I know they've stated in the past that they feel that a girl should never ask a guy or drop hints that they would definitely say yes (thus making it too easy for the guy)--but I think the ball is in the girl's court at this point. She doesn't have to directly ask the guy out but I think some sort of indication that she's changed her mind is in order. It's not that we're scared to ask you out a second time, it's just that we respected your first "no," and don't want to make you mad by ignoring it. This is just my opinion though, and I could be wrong. Thoughts?
9. Bek said the following at 10:59 AM on Jun 11:
NeedACatchyName - I think it's fine for the girl to make a move if she has already turned the guy down. I was once in that situation and when my feelings changed I told the guy in question that if he still wanted to get a coffee sometime, I was up for it. Things didn't work out between us, but I don't think anything would have been gained by my waiting around when I'd already told him I wasn't interested.
10. BDB said the following at 11:24 AM on Jun 11:
Katie wrote:
>>Regarding mixed messages... Guys, if a girl were to tell you that she appreciated you asking, but she wasn't interested, would you be confused, or would you understand it as an absolute no?<<
I was going to have a decisive answer...but then I realized that the last woman who did this bought me coffee a few weeks later...I'm still confused...
It's best to be consistent. If he escalates his requests, you can escalate firmness.
NeedACatchyName wrote:
>>It's not that we're scared to ask you out a second time, it's just that we respected your first "no," and don't want to make you mad by ignoring it.<<
I agree that this is something to think about. If you don't have a third party to communicate changes in your availability, people who are respectful won't know, and might not ask.
11. kman said the following at 11:49 AM on Jun 11:
heh. My wife asked me out first. Actually she beat me to it by about 30 seconds. LOL
Be careful trying to make hard and fast rules that are going to fit every situation. Be honest, let your no mean no and your yes mean yes.
A clean cut is better than a jagged tear.
12. Cath said the following at 12:39 PM on Jun 11:
I too really like the graphic design on this site... and appreciate the disclaimer that you wrote, Suzanne. I know that my husband and other guys will appreciate your thoughtful words.
13. Sumi said the following at 12:54 PM on Jun 11:
About the Boundless designer Michael Heath's art, for the article "You're a Great Guy, But..." I was a bit horrified, I thought the guy was hitting/was about to hit the girl! I actually made double sure I was at the Boundless website. I agree that the pic was a bit off the mark too.
14. jo mamma said the following at 1:22 PM on Jun 11:
I'll have to agree with stephen on this one
I would have to agree that the picture is the stereotype of what the world says of men. What about the stereotype that "enough is never enough!" when it comes to ladies? How many guys sacrifice and sacrifice with the woman taking a lot and never giving of herself? I've personally seen it a lot and experienced it, and not to say all women are this way but I've seen it mostly in the church.
A guy gives and gives of himself, sacrificing everything while women sometimes take it all in... that is definitely a reason why some guys pursue their own interests and are content to stay single longer.
Stereotypes are bad no matter which way you look at it... We could go on about women nagging. I recently had two women start complaining about their husbands, I told them "They love you, they committed their lives to you, give them a break!"
15. Paul said the following at 2:14 PM on Jun 11:
I echo that the direct yet gentle response highlighted by Katie and Jason is the most appropriate for a turndown. What is also helpful about it, from a man's perspective, is that it shows a certain confidence on the part of the woman that the man initiating can handle the rejection without being given a bunch of "compliments" that are rendered empty at best and, at worst, significantly add to the pain of being rejected.
Regarding the question of making a second attempt with someone who has turned you down previously, I believe that is something that needs to be discerned by the man, who always carries the responsibility to lead faithfully, in the context of how his relationship with the woman in question evolves in the aftermath of her response. I approached a woman in my church about the possibility of a relationship and she gave me the direct and gentle response seen above. However our friendship continued but after about a year and a half after our first talk I noticed that she was relating to me in a way that could have been an indicator that her heart had changed but I wasn't sure. Rather than live in this state of ambiguity I decided that the only way to clear this up was to ask her again. Not wanting to come across as one who did not respect her earlier "no", when we met I told her why, beyond the fact that she was still a godly, fruitful woman, I was coming to her again and gently let her know that the way she was relating to me was causing some ambiguity so I asked her to examine her heart, seek the Lord, and whether she might reconsider her earlier response. A few days later she told me that her feelings had not changed and the relationship once again settled into appropriately defined boundaries and she became more careful in her relationship with me.
16. BrooX said the following at 3:28 PM on Jun 11:
In general, I think the illustrative art is cool and wish the easy-print feature would include the art graphic. Just compress the Boundless banner to the right and insert the graphic in the upper left. How about it?
17. lewsta said the following at 3:49 PM on Jun 11:
Thought the article was well written, and spot on. I also appreciated the "gentle but clear and firm" turndown "script" mentioned by one of the Ladies above. At a wedding I recently attended, the Bride's father, in giving some great advice to his newly married daughter at the reception, said this: when you want something, tell him exactly what you want...HINTS DON'T WORK!!!
And thanks, Susanne, for the comments on the artwork for the article...being a professional photographer myself, the stereotypical "kiddult" representation of the guy next to the stereotypical 'hottie" gal screamed a message totally OTHER than the one you had for us.
18. Emily said the following at 4:18 PM on Jun 11:
I was very grateful for the timing of this article, as I immediately had need of the wise advice presented. I am privileged to say, however, that it was my wonderful dad who interacted with the young man who was interested in me. I was very uncomfortable and even a bit fearful of the situation, and I am so grateful for a father who is my protective covering. His emotions weren't caught up in the situation, and he could discern my sincere lack of interest in the young man and communicate respectfully with him. Gentlemen, may I challenge you to approach the father of the ladies you want to date before asking the ladies themselves? And ladies, there is nothing so comforting as the protective covering of a godly father. (Of course, such fathers are not always available, but as Boundless frequently encourages, a godly mentor is a priceless jewel.)
19. Kelly said the following at 6:22 PM on Jun 11:
Although I have never been in the situation of having to turn someone down I did wonder for years how to address it if someday someone finally did ask me out and it was someone I just could not/did not/was too afraid to want to date. It is a struggle all the thoughts and feelings that might go through my mind at that time. Things like "hmm he does (or not) seem to be who I thought I would want to be pursued by for marriage, but he is a really great guy, he is kind and a good Christian, active in our church, what if this is my last chance, what if my expectations are too high/too low and he is really the one? etc" With all the frantic thoughts racing through my brain I could totally see my self giving the "you are so amazing..." speech so I could buy myself some time to pray about it and call my girlfriends for advice.
It just occurred to me that maybe this is why I have not met anyone yet, why after 10 years in this country, of walking with the Lord since childhood I am now 30 and never had a relationship because God knows I would probably freak out if He sent any good candidates my way. I am the kind of person that cannot make serious decisions quickly and have always relied on God and advice of others to make serious decisions like which apartment to rent, which job to take, which state to live in etc. So far God has been really good to me and given me just the 1 thing that I needed right in the time that I needed it. I am praying and hoping that he provides a husband in the same way, because I don’t want to have to date multiple people in order to find the right one I would be too afraid of making a huge mistake
I really enjoyed the article and even forwarded it to a few friends. However - I have to admit that I did not even notice the artwork and had to go back to look at it.
20. DanL said the following at 5:52 AM on Jun 12:
Katie asked, “if a girl were to tell you that she appreciated you asking, but she wasn't interested, would you be confused, or would you understand it as an absolute no.” The problem with this is it is an obvious lie. Unless, you are the sort of cruel sadistic person who enjoys turning people down, you aren’t glad he asked. At least none of the women who have turned me down before have seemed to enjoy it.
The biggest problem I see, both in my own experience and with my friends, is when a woman says one thing and then acts in a totally different matter. It seems common for women to turn a guy down who just asked them out, but then to spend lots of time with him, even taking the initiative and calling him or dropping by his house. I don’t get this.
21. kman said the following at 8:09 AM on Jun 12:
"I would be too afraid of making a huge mistake"
The Bible is filled with people who made mistakes and had self-doubt. I don't know of anyone who has gone through life without feeling pain of some sort. Don't let this fear keep you from walking in God's plan for you.
22. Katie said the following at 9:22 AM on Jun 12:
>>Katie asked, “if a girl were to tell you that she appreciated you asking, but she wasn't interested, would you be confused, or would you understand it as an absolute no.” The problem with this is it is an obvious lie. Unless, you are the sort of cruel sadistic person who enjoys turning people down, you aren’t glad he asked. At least none of the women who have turned me down before have seemed to enjoy it.<<
DanL, I appreciate the point you brought up, and that was really part of what I was wondering. In this particular case, I was very glad he asked, because his interest had been evident for some time, and it left me floundering, knowing that I wasn't interested in a relationship with him, yet unsure how to communicate that until he initiated some sort of "relationship discussion." So, no, I hated turning the guy down, but yes, I was grateful to him for asking--for the simple reason that our relationship is clarified, and he acted the man by initiating that discussion. And while we're on the subject, any thoughts for girls when a guy is acting very interested, but a relationship between the two is not an option? Bringing up the relationship issue when he hasn't even verbally broached it seems very out of my place as a woman, yet going on as if there is no interest seems almost dishonest when I know he's interested in me.
23. Bethany said the following at 10:16 AM on Jun 12:
Suzanne - thanks for this post. I agree that the photo was way off the mark. It portrays the extreme ends of the gender stereotypes to the point of caricature. I appreciate very much the message that you were communicating in the actual article.
24. BDB said the following at 11:03 AM on Jun 12:
>>Bringing up the relationship issue when he hasn't even verbally broached it seems very out of my place as a woman, yet going on as if there is no interest seems almost dishonest when I know he's interested in me.<<
Well...don't encourage him. By that I mean don't talk with him for hours and hours...buy him gifts...tell him your deepest fears...call him when you're upset...
25. Felicia said the following at 1:02 PM on Jun 25:
Here's a woman who knows what she wants and doesn't add any unnecessary words:
http://www.comics.com/comics/drabble/archive/drabble-20070625.html