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Teaching the Bible in Public School
by Suzanne Hadley Gosselin on 03/26/2007 at 3:50 PM

Last week's Time magazine cover story considers the pros and cons of Bible education in public school. While Old and New Testament classes in public schools have proven popular, the concept is, of course, controversial.

To some, this idea seems retrograde. Citing a series of Supreme Court decisions culminating in 1963's Abington Township School District v. Schempp, which removed prayer and devotion from the classroom, the skeptics ask whether it is safe to bring back the source of all that sectarianism. But a new, post-Schempp coalition insists it is essential to do so. It argues that teaching the Bible in schools -- as an object of study, not God's received word -- is eminently constitutional. The Bible so pervades Western culture, it says, that it's hard to call anyone educated who hasn't at least given thought to its key passages.

Right now public-school courses on the Bible are employed in 460 districts in at least 37 states. One of the classes described in the article has become a favorite among students. Its popularity is indicative of its relevance.

I find this turn toward Bible literacy extremely encouraging. My mom came to know Christ through a secular college philosophy class. One day the professor said: "Today we are going to consider the philosophy of the apostle Paul. In my opinion, this guy was a total nut job." After hearing the gospel preached by an agnostic, my mom wasn't convinced of Paul's lunacy. She began reading Matthew and soon found herself on the "narrow road."

Obviously teaching the Bible in public schools enhances overall education (as Catherine Claire of the Point illustrates), but what I find exciting is its potential eternal value. A public high school teacher I know often writes Proverbs on his white board and tags them "Ancient Hebrew Saying." His students find the Proverbs intriguing and ask questions about them. God's Word is a light ... even to those who don't know Him yet.

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

1

The problem I have is that in NOT teaching the bible as the inerrant word of God, they will be applying what is known as "higher criticism" to the Bible. And to teach that to students in public school is VERY dangerous.

I think the public schools should not be allowed to BAN the use of the bible, but I also think that it is NOT their right to teach the bible. Those who ought to teach the bible are Christians, most especially those called to be teachers of the Word. I don't want a non-Christian teacher teaching students what is in the bible, b/c they will inevitably give it a twist.


2

My high school tried to implement a Bible class during my junior year. The class only lasted one year and was taught by the principle of the school because no teacher wanted to take the responsibility and consequences of teaching the Bible.

During the course of the debates surrounding this class, I believe I finally understood Phil 1:15-18 where Paul rejoices for the Gospel being preached no matter the motives of the preachers. The Scriptures teach us that God's Word will not return void.

However, I have a real problem okaying the teaching of the Bible as merely another book, whether history or literature. The Bible is so much more than that! It is God's Word! Also, if we allow the Bible to be taught in schools, who is to say that the Qua ran and other "religious" books are not following? I certainly wouldn't want today's high school students being taught from them.

I guess I just have real reservations in allowing the Holy Scriptures to be reduced to "just another book."


3

I also think this is a really encouraging development. My only worry is that teachers might make misrepresentations based on ignorance. I remember in my high school class the teacher said a criticism of Christianity is that forgiveness allows one to do whatever they want and simply ask forgiveness without really changing their habits. I argued I didn't think this reflected Christian exegesis (in different words).

On a whole, I think this will be good for junior high and high school students to learn something about the faith before college. We didn't have a philosophy class at our school, so we couldn't get really in-depth into the topics, but understanding Christianity theology and the Bible is absolutely imperative to understanding western civilization. I don't see how one could avoid it.


4

Pros:

1)Non-Christians who might never pick up a Bible otherwise get exposed to the scripture.

2)A degree of recognition pertaining to the importance of Christianity in American history and culture.

3)Desensitization of people who are Bible-phobic.

Cons:

1)Some nut uses it as an opportunity to blast Christianity. (The church thrives under persecution. Also, don't they blast Christianity anyway?)

2)Other religions will demand equal treatment. For example: they might also be required to teach the Koran in school also. (Light dispels darkness. If people knew what some of these other writings actually said...they might not be so sympathetic to them.)

Overall, I'm in favor...however it should be taught from a standard curriculum that has been reviewed by respected Christian Bible scholars.

As always, parents should also monitor what their children are learning in school and take responsibility themselves for their child's spiritual training.

We (the Church) also need to pray that God will open people's eyes to the truth of the scriptures.


5

Wow, God Bless America. I really believe that America is Exceptional. Of course, America must continue to follow Him.

Of course, the ACLU will soon ride in to break up the party.


6

I teach Biblical Literature at a private high school. The textbook mentioned in teh Time article is a very good textbook (although it is a bit advanced for teh Freshmen I teach). The big contradiction i find with those who oppose teaching the Bible in the public schools is that every student is exposed to teh religious beliefs of the ancient Greeks and no one is offended. I never felt tempted to go worship Zeus after learning Greek mythology. I am thankful I learned mythology...it's called education. People should know the basics about the Bible. Eduation is different from propaganda.


7

I find this very encouraging as a training teacher! In Australia, we are lucky that in most areas, state schools allow time for volunteer religious educators to take a class.

I have also seen the Bible effectively used as a piece of literature and taught purely objectively (by Christian teachers). The students reflected on the motives of the 'characters', the symbolism, the plot (God's divine planning and timing) and students have put all this together and made a decision for Christ!

May God continue to give us ways around government policy :)


8

I'm wondering if it's more trouble than it's worth. It might not be and there certainly are good things that could come of it, however, I can't help but think that the parents and the Church need to remember that they are the primary providers of catachism and religious instruction. The Great Commission isn't just about making new converts, but also about "teaching them to obey all that I have commanded."
All in all, if a school wants to offer a class on it, ok, but we need to remember that religious instruction is primarily the responsibility of the church and family.
Abraham Kuyper, in his "Lectures on Calvinism" writes a great deal about the roles of different institutions in society. The book is very accessable, and don't let the "Calvinism" part scare you off.


9

Jonathan from Canada:

The ACLU defends everyone on free speech issues, including Christians (here is just one example, the first result for "ACLU christian" on Google - and here is an interesting article from Christianity Today which discusses the ACLU and the Christian view of the organization).


10

I'd much rather see biblical teaching or bible study put back in the church and in the individual lives of Christians instead.


11

If the Bible is to be taught in public schools, then it must be taught as a historical document--taking careful note to mention its origins, subsequent copies and resulting discrepencies. We should not be teaching people about the Bible in a way that will make them believe it without thinking--especially in schools. If you want people to really be Christians, you should want all the facts to be laid out so they can make their own decisions.

Just showing the Bible wont save souls. I am sorry. That kind of faith will not survive. My faith didnt.


12

I can sort of see how the initial response of many people may be that teaching the Bible in public schools is a good thing, given the regular assaults on the civil rights of Christians in North American society today. But, realistically, post-sola scriptura, *whose* reading of the Bible will be taught? Many of the literally thousands interpretations out there conflict with each other -- and yet they cannot all be right, by definition. (That's not to say that there *isn't* an unbroken, consistent witness of historical Biblical teachings that's still in existence, because there is.) We may not like the idea that some interpretations are "wrong", but that's the reality of what's out there when it comes up against what the Scriptures say, and how the Church has historically dealt with competing and mutually exclusive readings of God's Word.

I also agree with others here that it might just be counter-productive to "study" the Bible as if it was just any piece of literature or history text. It's in a whole different category by itself from Shakespeare and the most respectable of textbooks. Presenting it that way to non-believers might just send the wrong message (if the wrong message isn't already being taught through some individual person's interpretations).

The thing is, though, that even if the Bible isn't taught in public schools, that shouldn't be the case because it's a "book" that should be "banned" or denigrated as offensive, backward, irrelevant, discriminatory, or hateful. Yes, hateful -- Lord have mercy on us, we actually had to "defend" God's Word because of what it says about homosexuality here in Canadian courts!


13

In response to James and Courtney, the Bible wasn't created just for Christians. It was created for everyone. I don't think it hurts us at all to have non-Christians talk about the historical truths of the Bible. Talking about Jesus and the Bible in secular terms will lead people to the truth. As long as teachers aren't saying the Bible is clearly fiction, which I don't think they will, this can only have a positive effect.


14

I'm with Dustin P. Adams and Andie on this. So many quotes from the KJV and so many Bible stories are part of our literary "vernacular," yet so many people don't realize that the Bible is the source of those quotes and stories. And then you have the sayings that people think are in the Bible but actually aren't—"God helps those who help themselves," for example.

Teaching the Bible as a historical document, a piece of literature, and the scriptures of one of the world's religions, is a good thing. I too would prefer that a Christ-follower do the teaching in each case.

And to William: Such a good point!! God's laws, promises, truths, revelation, and good news apply to all peoples. The Truth is the Truth is the Truth!


15

This article is welcome news. I heard about these courses starting in high schools maybe a year or 2 ago, and it's great to see that it is continuing.

I also think Suzanne's mother is another wonderful testimony to the power of God. There is power in our Lord's Word, that he is able to use it to light up our souls, no matter who is teaching it. Yes, there will probably be some teachers who distort it, but how is that different from any other time in the last 2,000 years?

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd definitely love to have a pastor who loves his Bible to teach this kind of a class, but I still think this is a good thing that God will use. He can and will draw people to Himself with these classes. We Christians need to be ready.

"So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him."


16

As a 6th grade public school teacher, I find this to be an interesting topic. I integrate the Bible into many aspects of my classroom. Though it is absolutely not in the district curriculum.

We start the year talking about wisdom. We discuss the idea that wisdom is not knowing something, but knowing and applying it. I put up several quotes about wisdom, and include several proverbs.

I read "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe." We discuss symbolism in literature, and then I pull out my Bible, and show students the exact references that it is making.

We study World cultures in 6th grade social studies...I absolutely include Christianity in the study of ancient Greece & Rome.

I know it seems backward, but as a believer, it seems a bit scary to have state mandated, or district mandated religious education...bible classes. I agree though, that God can work through any situation, and the Bible says that His Word will not return void...thought provoking!


17

I agree with Laura it is a scary thing when religious education is mandated(or allowed) by any governmental agency at any level. The gospel always loses when we do this. We need to to stop expecting the public schools do do what is the church's job anyway. By church I mean you and me and all Christians, churches and CHRISTIAN Schools.
Has anyone ever wondered how biblical phrases became part of literaure and our culture in general.
It happened because Christians were not afraid to engage the culture. They wrote good songs, good books(Chronicles of Narnia for instance). They painted good art. It was not done by forcing students to sit in on bible classes at state schools.
There were actually bible believing preachers early in the 20th century who opposed the teaching of the bible in public schools because they knew it would be stripped of its redemptive value.
If you want to fight biblical illiteracy first of start with yourself( how much of the Bible have you read and studied this week), then your church(what gets preached to you on Sunday morning? psyco-babble or the bible), then you and your church can figure out how you can reach your community with the glorious truth contained in this Bible which so many people are willing to give up in order to "get the Bible back in the classroom"


18

okay i am doing this project on Christianity and being able to read the bible in school, and i think that its totallu bogous. i think we should be able to read it and pray as long as we dont teach it to teachers and teachers dont teach us. It should be our perogotive if we want to read the Bible and pray or not. I think tha schools really need to think this thru.


19

"God Bless America" what most Americans were quoted saying after 911, and now turning their backs on offering courses of New/Old Testament teachings of the bible is hipocritical. I completely agree with -Dustin P. Adams- explaining the fact that Anicent Greek Mythology is TAUGHT in school classrooms, so why not TEACHING God and His Word, but avoid preaching.

Having some people say 'yeah let's have someone teach His Word, but someone who knows it' well, I can only imagine what others such as Greeks, Indians,etc. hope that teachers discuss their beliefs and so on, correctly.


20

Marie, you said "Just showing the Bible wont save souls. I am sorry. That kind of faith will not survive. My faith didnt."

Just because your faith didn't doesn't mean other's won't. For many people in China, and for others who were once (and maybe still are) behind the iron curtain, the bible was the only thing they had to tell them about Christ. And many became Christians due to reading the bible, and their faith thrived.

Never, ever, EVER dismiss the power of God's word.


21

I really think that public schools should allow children to read the Bible in school,especially if they are christian. I've never had to experience that, but I'm sure that I would want them to let kids have the choice to read what they want and when they want.


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Newer Post | Older Post


Teaching the Bible in Public School
by Suzanne Hadley Gosselin on 03/26/2007 at 3:50 PM

Last week's Time magazine cover story considers the pros and cons of Bible education in public school. While Old and New Testament classes in public schools have proven popular, the concept is, of course, controversial.

To some, this idea seems retrograde. Citing a series of Supreme Court decisions culminating in 1963's Abington Township School District v. Schempp, which removed prayer and devotion from the classroom, the skeptics ask whether it is safe to bring back the source of all that sectarianism. But a new, post-Schempp coalition insists it is essential to do so. It argues that teaching the Bible in schools -- as an object of study, not God's received word -- is eminently constitutional. The Bible so pervades Western culture, it says, that it's hard to call anyone educated who hasn't at least given thought to its key passages.

Right now public-school courses on the Bible are employed in 460 districts in at least 37 states. One of the classes described in the article has become a favorite among students. Its popularity is indicative of its relevance.

I find this turn toward Bible literacy extremely encouraging. My mom came to know Christ through a secular college philosophy class. One day the professor said: "Today we are going to consider the philosophy of the apostle Paul. In my opinion, this guy was a total nut job." After hearing the gospel preached by an agnostic, my mom wasn't convinced of Paul's lunacy. She began reading Matthew and soon found herself on the "narrow road."

Obviously teaching the Bible in public schools enhances overall education (as Catherine Claire of the Point illustrates), but what I find exciting is its potential eternal value. A public high school teacher I know often writes Proverbs on his white board and tags them "Ancient Hebrew Saying." His students find the Proverbs intriguing and ask questions about them. God's Word is a light ... even to those who don't know Him yet.

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

1

The problem I have is that in NOT teaching the bible as the inerrant word of God, they will be applying what is known as "higher criticism" to the Bible. And to teach that to students in public school is VERY dangerous.

I think the public schools should not be allowed to BAN the use of the bible, but I also think that it is NOT their right to teach the bible. Those who ought to teach the bible are Christians, most especially those called to be teachers of the Word. I don't want a non-Christian teacher teaching students what is in the bible, b/c they will inevitably give it a twist.


2

My high school tried to implement a Bible class during my junior year. The class only lasted one year and was taught by the principle of the school because no teacher wanted to take the responsibility and consequences of teaching the Bible.

During the course of the debates surrounding this class, I believe I finally understood Phil 1:15-18 where Paul rejoices for the Gospel being preached no matter the motives of the preachers. The Scriptures teach us that God's Word will not return void.

However, I have a real problem okaying the teaching of the Bible as merely another book, whether history or literature. The Bible is so much more than that! It is God's Word! Also, if we allow the Bible to be taught in schools, who is to say that the Qua ran and other "religious" books are not following? I certainly wouldn't want today's high school students being taught from them.

I guess I just have real reservations in allowing the Holy Scriptures to be reduced to "just another book."


3

I also think this is a really encouraging development. My only worry is that teachers might make misrepresentations based on ignorance. I remember in my high school class the teacher said a criticism of Christianity is that forgiveness allows one to do whatever they want and simply ask forgiveness without really changing their habits. I argued I didn't think this reflected Christian exegesis (in different words).

On a whole, I think this will be good for junior high and high school students to learn something about the faith before college. We didn't have a philosophy class at our school, so we couldn't get really in-depth into the topics, but understanding Christianity theology and the Bible is absolutely imperative to understanding western civilization. I don't see how one could avoid it.


4

Pros:

1)Non-Christians who might never pick up a Bible otherwise get exposed to the scripture.

2)A degree of recognition pertaining to the importance of Christianity in American history and culture.

3)Desensitization of people who are Bible-phobic.

Cons:

1)Some nut uses it as an opportunity to blast Christianity. (The church thrives under persecution. Also, don't they blast Christianity anyway?)

2)Other religions will demand equal treatment. For example: they might also be required to teach the Koran in school also. (Light dispels darkness. If people knew what some of these other writings actually said...they might not be so sympathetic to them.)

Overall, I'm in favor...however it should be taught from a standard curriculum that has been reviewed by respected Christian Bible scholars.

As always, parents should also monitor what their children are learning in school and take responsibility themselves for their child's spiritual training.

We (the Church) also need to pray that God will open people's eyes to the truth of the scriptures.


5

Wow, God Bless America. I really believe that America is Exceptional. Of course, America must continue to follow Him.

Of course, the ACLU will soon ride in to break up the party.


6

I teach Biblical Literature at a private high school. The textbook mentioned in teh Time article is a very good textbook (although it is a bit advanced for teh Freshmen I teach). The big contradiction i find with those who oppose teaching the Bible in the public schools is that every student is exposed to teh religious beliefs of the ancient Greeks and no one is offended. I never felt tempted to go worship Zeus after learning Greek mythology. I am thankful I learned mythology...it's called education. People should know the basics about the Bible. Eduation is different from propaganda.


7

I find this very encouraging as a training teacher! In Australia, we are lucky that in most areas, state schools allow time for volunteer religious educators to take a class.

I have also seen the Bible effectively used as a piece of literature and taught purely objectively (by Christian teachers). The students reflected on the motives of the 'characters', the symbolism, the plot (God's divine planning and timing) and students have put all this together and made a decision for Christ!

May God continue to give us ways around government policy :)


8

I'm wondering if it's more trouble than it's worth. It might not be and there certainly are good things that could come of it, however, I can't help but think that the parents and the Church need to remember that they are the primary providers of catachism and religious instruction. The Great Commission isn't just about making new converts, but also about "teaching them to obey all that I have commanded."
All in all, if a school wants to offer a class on it, ok, but we need to remember that religious instruction is primarily the responsibility of the church and family.
Abraham Kuyper, in his "Lectures on Calvinism" writes a great deal about the roles of different institutions in society. The book is very accessable, and don't let the "Calvinism" part scare you off.


9

Jonathan from Canada:

The ACLU defends everyone on free speech issues, including Christians (here is just one example, the first result for "ACLU christian" on Google - and here is an interesting article from Christianity Today which discusses the ACLU and the Christian view of the organization).


10

I'd much rather see biblical teaching or bible study put back in the church and in the individual lives of Christians instead.


11

If the Bible is to be taught in public schools, then it must be taught as a historical document--taking careful note to mention its origins, subsequent copies and resulting discrepencies. We should not be teaching people about the Bible in a way that will make them believe it without thinking--especially in schools. If you want people to really be Christians, you should want all the facts to be laid out so they can make their own decisions.

Just showing the Bible wont save souls. I am sorry. That kind of faith will not survive. My faith didnt.


12

I can sort of see how the initial response of many people may be that teaching the Bible in public schools is a good thing, given the regular assaults on the civil rights of Christians in North American society today. But, realistically, post-sola scriptura, *whose* reading of the Bible will be taught? Many of the literally thousands interpretations out there conflict with each other -- and yet they cannot all be right, by definition. (That's not to say that there *isn't* an unbroken, consistent witness of historical Biblical teachings that's still in existence, because there is.) We may not like the idea that some interpretations are "wrong", but that's the reality of what's out there when it comes up against what the Scriptures say, and how the Church has historically dealt with competing and mutually exclusive readings of God's Word.

I also agree with others here that it might just be counter-productive to "study" the Bible as if it was just any piece of literature or history text. It's in a whole different category by itself from Shakespeare and the most respectable of textbooks. Presenting it that way to non-believers might just send the wrong message (if the wrong message isn't already being taught through some individual person's interpretations).

The thing is, though, that even if the Bible isn't taught in public schools, that shouldn't be the case because it's a "book" that should be "banned" or denigrated as offensive, backward, irrelevant, discriminatory, or hateful. Yes, hateful -- Lord have mercy on us, we actually had to "defend" God's Word because of what it says about homosexuality here in Canadian courts!


13

In response to James and Courtney, the Bible wasn't created just for Christians. It was created for everyone. I don't think it hurts us at all to have non-Christians talk about the historical truths of the Bible. Talking about Jesus and the Bible in secular terms will lead people to the truth. As long as teachers aren't saying the Bible is clearly fiction, which I don't think they will, this can only have a positive effect.


14

I'm with Dustin P. Adams and Andie on this. So many quotes from the KJV and so many Bible stories are part of our literary "vernacular," yet so many people don't realize that the Bible is the source of those quotes and stories. And then you have the sayings that people think are in the Bible but actually aren't—"God helps those who help themselves," for example.

Teaching the Bible as a historical document, a piece of literature, and the scriptures of one of the world's religions, is a good thing. I too would prefer that a Christ-follower do the teaching in each case.

And to William: Such a good point!! God's laws, promises, truths, revelation, and good news apply to all peoples. The Truth is the Truth is the Truth!


15

This article is welcome news. I heard about these courses starting in high schools maybe a year or 2 ago, and it's great to see that it is continuing.

I also think Suzanne's mother is another wonderful testimony to the power of God. There is power in our Lord's Word, that he is able to use it to light up our souls, no matter who is teaching it. Yes, there will probably be some teachers who distort it, but how is that different from any other time in the last 2,000 years?

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd definitely love to have a pastor who loves his Bible to teach this kind of a class, but I still think this is a good thing that God will use. He can and will draw people to Himself with these classes. We Christians need to be ready.

"So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him."


16

As a 6th grade public school teacher, I find this to be an interesting topic. I integrate the Bible into many aspects of my classroom. Though it is absolutely not in the district curriculum.

We start the year talking about wisdom. We discuss the idea that wisdom is not knowing something, but knowing and applying it. I put up several quotes about wisdom, and include several proverbs.

I read "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe." We discuss symbolism in literature, and then I pull out my Bible, and show students the exact references that it is making.

We study World cultures in 6th grade social studies...I absolutely include Christianity in the study of ancient Greece & Rome.

I know it seems backward, but as a believer, it seems a bit scary to have state mandated, or district mandated religious education...bible classes. I agree though, that God can work through any situation, and the Bible says that His Word will not return void...thought provoking!


17

I agree with Laura it is a scary thing when religious education is mandated(or allowed) by any governmental agency at any level. The gospel always loses when we do this. We need to to stop expecting the public schools do do what is the church's job anyway. By church I mean you and me and all Christians, churches and CHRISTIAN Schools.
Has anyone ever wondered how biblical phrases became part of literaure and our culture in general.
It happened because Christians were not afraid to engage the culture. They wrote good songs, good books(Chronicles of Narnia for instance). They painted good art. It was not done by forcing students to sit in on bible classes at state schools.
There were actually bible believing preachers early in the 20th century who opposed the teaching of the bible in public schools because they knew it would be stripped of its redemptive value.
If you want to fight biblical illiteracy first of start with yourself( how much of the Bible have you read and studied this week), then your church(what gets preached to you on Sunday morning? psyco-babble or the bible), then you and your church can figure out how you can reach your community with the glorious truth contained in this Bible which so many people are willing to give up in order to "get the Bible back in the classroom"


18

okay i am doing this project on Christianity and being able to read the bible in school, and i think that its totallu bogous. i think we should be able to read it and pray as long as we dont teach it to teachers and teachers dont teach us. It should be our perogotive if we want to read the Bible and pray or not. I think tha schools really need to think this thru.


19

"God Bless America" what most Americans were quoted saying after 911, and now turning their backs on offering courses of New/Old Testament teachings of the bible is hipocritical. I completely agree with -Dustin P. Adams- explaining the fact that Anicent Greek Mythology is TAUGHT in school classrooms, so why not TEACHING God and His Word, but avoid preaching.

Having some people say 'yeah let's have someone teach His Word, but someone who knows it' well, I can only imagine what others such as Greeks, Indians,etc. hope that teachers discuss their beliefs and so on, correctly.


20

Marie, you said "Just showing the Bible wont save souls. I am sorry. That kind of faith will not survive. My faith didnt."

Just because your faith didn't doesn't mean other's won't. For many people in China, and for others who were once (and maybe still are) behind the iron curtain, the bible was the only thing they had to tell them about Christ. And many became Christians due to reading the bible, and their faith thrived.

Never, ever, EVER dismiss the power of God's word.


21

I really think that public schools should allow children to read the Bible in school,especially if they are christian. I've never had to experience that, but I'm sure that I would want them to let kids have the choice to read what they want and when they want.



If you'd like to leave a comment, we're afraid you'll have to use a non-mobile device to do so. I just couldn't get the mobile comment entry form to work right. Alas. ~Ted.