From "Hi" to "I Do" in a Year
by Ted Slater on 03/27/2007 at 9:58 AM
I married her about a year after I first met her.
I met her in church, and also saw her around the university campus, where she was a grad student and where I had some clients.
A couple of months after I first saw her, and after we'd chatted some at get-togethers, I invited her to attend my small group at church. She accepted.
A short while later I invited my roommate and myself over to her apartment to evaluate her leftover lasagna. She opened the door when I knocked. I took that as a good sign.
After seeking counsel with one of my pastors, I took her out for lunch and nervously let her know I was interested in a relationship with her. Though she was interested in me, she wanted time to think about it. I respected that, and over the next couple of weeks, I continued to gently reaffirm my interest.
At one particular get-together a few weeks later, I asked her if she'd be open to being in a formal relationship with me. A couple of days later, as I drove her to the airport, she said yes.
The four months of our courtship were characterized by clarity, honesty, accountability with her family and our pastor, adventure, prayer, purity, romance and intentionality. Four months after we started our courtship, I asked her to marry me. Her response: "Yes, of course."
The four months of our engagement were characterized by continued purity and intentionality, continued meetings with our mentors and pastors, a couple of trips to Florida to spend time with her family, continued prayer and a growing understanding of our respective roles, and preparations for The Big Day.
Four months after we were engaged beneath a full moon on the beach, eight months after we first started our courtship, a mere year after we first met, our pastor told me I could kiss my bride. And for the first time, I did.
Because of our intentionality; because of our eagerness to be under the watchful eyes of parents, mentors and pastors; because of our steadfast commitment to purity and honesty -- one year from "Hi" to "I do" was not too short a period of time.
I believe that those who practice biblical dating -- who practice intentionality, accountability and purity, and who have a complimentarian view of the sexes and a Godward perspective -- for these individuals 12 months can be just about right.
It doesn't *need* to be much longer than that.
1. Gina said the following at 10:20 AM on Mar 27:
Appreciate your sharing your story, Ted. But may I make a request?
I think it would be great if sometime you or one of the other bloggers here could post on the similarities and differences between the model you promote here and the model promoted for so long by James Dobson. Because frankly, for one who was raised on Dr. Dobson's books with their emphasis on waiting a long time to make sure you know your potential mate as well as you possibly can, visits to this site can sometimes feel a little, well, surreal. :-)
2. Diane Suffern said the following at 10:35 AM on Mar 27:
I wholeheartedly agree.
In my young adult years, I didn't subscribe to biblical principles in, well, any way whatsoever and found myself pregnant by date-rape. Long sorted story short, it was my "hemming in" thanks to a merciful God...and I spent a few years in solitude, mothering, plodding away at church, accepting grace. When my son was nearly two years old last January, I went to a new Bible Fellowship class at my church and heard a fellow class mate announce a discussion group on Grudem's systematic theology. Someone told me it was over their head, so I knew it was the right study group for me! haha. After class, I shook hands with the leader, Matt, not knowing that in Novemember, we'd be married.
We met in groups until he asked if my son and I wanted to get lunch one day and go to the park. That was our first date and we continued a very honest, upright, intentional courthsip period (in the sight of our teachers at church and parents/family) until he proposed in August at the park he took Luke and I on our first date. He said he never wanted Luke and I to be alone again. He had been PREPARED for husbandry and fatherhood, praise the Lord! We planned a beautiful church ceremony and reception in record time...and, believe it or not, conceived our "second" child the month after we married!!! So, yes, it has been an eventful year.
Thank you for sharing. There are no words adequate enough to praise the providence of God. Oh, I love my husband! When God is of chief importance to both people, all else pales. When marriage is in right context, true love can flourish. Awesome.
3. BDB said the following at 10:46 AM on Mar 27:
It's great that it worked out like that for you, Ted. It's wonderful when it is that fast. When I was in college, I had lots and lots of time to sit and talk with people, time that doesn't exist in the same portions now that I have a full-time job and a mortgage. The same number of hours of conversation take a lot longer on the calendar. On the other hand, people my age are making decisions that affect other people's lives, so you really get to see their character when it's for real - something college students can't demonstrate yet.
But even aside from Dobson's recommendations as a psychologist, Elisabeth Elliot as a missionary also waited five years before getting engaged. One can hardly claim her life was not used by God.
4. Becky F. said the following at 10:57 AM on Mar 27:
Thanks Ted and Diane for sharing! It's so great to hear about other people who have gone through similar relationships leading to marriage, and didn't have to wait two years to even have a marriage-related discussion!
I know I've told my story in pieces before, but since this thread is designated for this type of thing I'll share it again. :)
I met my husband at the end of September 2005. He was a new "field-worker" assigned to do work at my church from the Seminary he attends. He was sitting in the seat I typically sat in during our Sunday morning Bible class. The first time I saw him I sat at another table since I didn't know him and two other people at "my" table. The next week they were there again, but there was no room anywhere but to sit with them. We introduced ourselves and shared some fun, interesting comments across the table throughout the Bible class hour. The same thing happened the next week, and so two weeks after we actually met I asked him if he would like to go to the zoo with me (since it is free in St. Louis, and it was a low pressure environment). He accepted, and we had a lot of fun talking about all sorts of things, I hardly remember looking at the animals.
We were both at the tail end of not-so-great long-distance relationships, and we talked about that at the zoo, along with what we wanted out of a dating relationship leading to marriage. He asked for my number after dinner with his brother & sister-in-law at their house, and we planned to go out later in the week. During the week, before he called me, he went and talked to one of my pastors to make sure it would be a good idea for him to pursue a relationship with me. He got the go-ahead and he also called his girlfriend to completely finalize things between them (again).
About a month after that he asked me to be his girlfriend, I said, "you mean I'm not already?" and then New Year's Eve he proposed after asking both my parents around Thanksgiving time.
We got married on June 3, 2006, only 8 full months after meeting each other. Unfortunately, we had not kept much purity in our relationship about 2 months before our wedding, but we have repented of our sin to each other and to God, and it's in the past and gone. Now, I'm 21 weeks pregnant and very happy with the life God has given me.
I never expected to meet someone coming right out of a longer relationship, especially since there were no good guys at my college, and no guys my age at my church. I really had no way of meeting anyone for me in my hometown of St. Louis, so God brought a Seminary student from North Dakota to my Bible class seat.
5. Ted Slater said the following at 11:06 AM on Mar 27:
BDB -- it was not my intention to imply that those who go more slowly are any less godly. I'm not sure how you might interpret my "story" as a denunciation of Elisabeth Elliot's "story," for example.
Also, I don't understand the relevance of your comparison of college students' time vs. working people's time. I was in a full-time job, paying off a mortgage while pursuing the woman who became my wife. She, as I mentioned, was wrapping up grad school. I think our relationship progressed so quickly not because she was a student, though, but because we were intentional and prayerful, and we kept our relationship pure and open to the inspection of family, pastors, and mentors.
Again, what I'm saying is that our single readers don't need to think that they're years away from marriage. Their Big Day could be only 12 months off, and their spouse could be someone they've yet to even meet. My intention is to encourage our readers not to lose heart if they are beginning to do so.
6. Becky F. said the following at 11:07 AM on Mar 27:
There is of course nothing wrong with waiting a long time before beginning a relationship and getting married, either. My younger sister began her dating relationship with her now husband at the end of her freshman year of highschool. They knew they wanted to get married sometime in that first year together, but of course it's not wise for two 16 year olds to get married halfway through highschool! They got engaged after graduation in 2005, and were planning their wedding for June 2007 because our parents were not happy with them getting married at the beginning of college. Well, she ended up becoming pregnant about a year ago and got married a month before I did, a month after she told my parents she had gotten pregnant.
Things are a little more difficult for them, they are living in the apartment above my parents' garage, where I lived my sophomore and junior years of college, and where my husband and I were planning on living for our first year of marriage to save on rent, but we gave it to them since they would be having a baby.
My point is that it is perfectly appropriate for some couples to wait a long time, especially when they are so young when they find each other.
7. Ashleigh said the following at 11:18 AM on Mar 27:
BDB, I wanted to clarify that at the time Ted and I courted, I was in grad school full-time and working a full-time job in order to avoid taking out large student loans. Ted was also working a full-time job, serving on the worship team, doing outside freelance projects, and had a mortage. We were in the midst of real-life.
You're right, it can be hard. We had to be very purposeful about finding the time to talk and get to know one another.
For example, I often had to watch and evaluate films for my classes (since I was studying film and television). In order for me to finish my assignment but still spend time with Ted, he invited a bunch of friends over and we all watched the assigned film. Also, when we first started courting Ted was working on an album for our church. He spent hours and hours and hours engineering it. This provided little time for us to spend hours in conversation. Instead, I would bring whatever project I had over and work on it while he worked. Then we'd take a break for a walk, spend some time talking, and return to our work. So it can be done in real-life; it just means being purposeful and creative.
Also, I think perhaps the main point of this post is not: "Get married within a year." Instead, it is: "Don't be leary of getting married within a year of meeting someone. It can happen."
8. Laura said the following at 11:33 AM on Mar 27:
I read this blog each day and have never posted before, but wanted to share my story of the last several months in response to this thread.
Last summer, I was at my wits end in terms of dating. I was tired of the games, and a year out of college, ready to begin the next chapter in my life -- which I always believed included a husband! I sought the counsel of a wise friend, and decided to drop my pride and allow her and her husband to act on behalf with any young men that they deemed suitable dating material (this came on the heels of reading Maken's 'Getting Serious about Getting Married.') It wasn't long before my friend asked me to come out to her house, as a couple of "nice young men" with whom they were friends were driving through and spending the night there.
That's when I met him! I thought not much about it, being that he lived several states away, but it turned out that he would be visiting again a couple months later to help lead a youth retreat at the church where I work. The day after he left, I remember sitting on the couch thinking "I really wish he would call me," and he did! We started talking shortly after the retreat, and decided to start dating in January. We are right now planning out the future, with God's gentle hand directing us, and know that God intends for us to be together, and serve him together.
I struggled for so long with waiting and timing, and never did I think this could all happen in such short time! I'm glad I waited and trusted, because now I can look forward to a future with a man whom I respect and admire, and who is everything I thought could not possibly exist in one person.
9. Aaron said the following at 11:48 AM on Mar 27:
I definitely agree Ted. I remember mentioning to someone recently that I didn’t want to date anyone I could not see myself married to in a year and her replying, “Wow, that doesn’t leave much time for an engagement.” But I know though that circumstances sometimes alter the time-table. My brother starting dating his future wife when he was a junior in college and she was a sophomore. The goodness of the match was apparent early, but because they wanted to wait until she graduated, they didn’t get married until after he had finished his first year of grad school. While during that year, his best friend, who graduated with him, met a girl, got engaged, and then got married before him. The difference in timing due to the fact that the circumstance of wanting to finish college first wasn’t present in his friend’s relationship.
I know Boundless has talked a lot about not dating unless you could see yourself married to that person in a year, and also about not letting circumstances get in the way of marriage. But I think it would have been a lot harder on my brother and his wife had they been married earlier. At the same time, his friend’s experience shows that it certainly doesn’t have to take 3 years to be “ready” for marriage. All things being equal, one year should be enough time for Christian singles intentional about marriage. All things are however, not equal, nevertheless I think you need a good reason, i.e. impending separation, to draw things out a long time. That being said, thanks Ted for posting. It is encouraging to think that there could be a Mrs. Jones within a year.
10. Sarah said the following at 11:53 AM on Mar 27:
I don't wish to be offensive, but I can't help finding your post and subsequent comment to be overly self-righteous.
I think the get married right away vs. wait a long time debate is sometimes a matter of experience, context and personality...some people may be well-placed to figure things out right away, while others may not. Relying on one's individual experience is thus not good enough to justify making claims about everybody. I believe it to be dangerous to imply that anyone can figure things out within a year.
A lifetime is a long time...why the rush?
11. TD said the following at 11:56 AM on Mar 27:
A young lady I was especially fond of and I thought I might marry just broke up with me after 4 months because of my desire to get married and her desire to wait. How do we let young ladies know that's our intention without scaring them off from the start?
12. mp said the following at 12:09 PM on Mar 27:
I am greatful to hear your story, and think it is awesome what God did in ya'lls lives! I have friends that have experienced the same and love marriage!
I would say that taking the time to really KNOW someone throughout the seasons of life is a healthy choice for most. It takes time to 'settle into' a relationship for most people. I think the process can be a bit faster if both people come from well put together homes where there is lots of support and Godly mentorship (by family or church), where they KNOW that they have grown up with the same values, dating philosophy, theological ideas, etc. walking into a dating situation where someone may have had a history of past relationships, broken family, posible abuse etc... it may be wiser to take the time to KNOW someone over a longer period of time.
These are probably things that you have thought of, and I understand that you are not presenting this 'one year' as THE WAY to date, but to be responsible to all your readers, it may be helpful to mention these things as important.
13. Charles H. said the following at 12:11 PM on Mar 27:
Ah, the courtship debate again...
Alright, I'll bite. I do believe that two mature people who both have the same things in mind can hope to marry in a year, under optimal circumstances. (It's a bit like saying "you can get a bachelor's degree in three years." True, if...)
Historically, Ted, you've argued that your plan results in a healthier relationship -- not a faster progression towards marriage. In other words, if two people who don't follow your model are both seriously looking for a spouse, and compatible with each other, how would your plan accelerate their path towards marriage? And by making it harder to take those first few steps, doesn't the courtship model tend to increase the distance between *here* and marriage?
14. Mark B said the following at 12:16 PM on Mar 27:
What an excellent testimony! Sounds like two very balanced, mature, acutely developed Christ followers. I so enjoy hearing about a godly "courtship" model and the oversight of family and spiritual leaders. Accountability and a "communially constructed" arrangement? What an outrageous idea! Gosh, glad that is happening every now and then!
My only hesitation is the one-year benchmark... one size does not fit all. Some may need a longer period and I would hope that such a serious decision is not made in any less time than a year! I would error on the side on the Dobson idea given the number of divorces that are occuring in the Church.
15. Mandi said the following at 12:49 PM on Mar 27:
Ted,
Thank you ever so much for sharing your "story".
It is just *such* an encouragement to hear that it's not "too fast" to marry someone God has put in your path to intentionally pursue or respond to, as the case may be, within a year. As I told Becky F. last week when she shared a bit of her "story" (I think in the midst of the flurry of posts about motivated men), God bless your heart for sharing this because it has brought encouragement in ways you cannot know. There really has been no shortage of people who imply either with their words ("That was fast!", "Gee, you're moving quickly...are you sure?", etc.) or their facial expressions that there's something wrong with not going on for years before engagement and marriage. So thank you, thank you, thank you, Ted (and Becky F. and Diane Suffern), for the encouragement you have brought to at least one person!
Only 12 months ago, I too would have been an avid Boundless reader that was deeply discouraged and worried about "having" to wait for a couple of years until The Big Day...and that would by necessity be *after* meeting this guy, who had yet to make an appearance on the horizon, so I thought it would be longer than that. These thoughts were especially upsetting because I was approaching 30, and I knew all too well the "costs of delaying marriage", as Boundless has pointed out so much over the years.
In the last 6 months since meeting my beau, I've learned a little bit about how God is not limited by time. It's truly amazing how He can work things out and bring up even serious issues between people, that can actually work to make the "real" time they've spent together seem like much longer time (in a good way).
I'd add that apart from my "story", I think this business of waiting for years is very much a cultural thing, as most of my non-Western family and friends didn't even bat an eye when they realized I'd be marrying someone within a year. That may (just guessing) be why your ideas about this, Ted, seem a bit counter- (Western, secular) cultural to many.
It's also *much* "easier" to fight for your purity of thought, intention, and action when the space between "Hi" and "I do" is shorter, not longer. (I suspect that may be why in other cultures where PDA is usually highly inappropriate and chastity is more highly valued across the culture, waiting for years is frowned upon.) I once heard someone speaking to young Christians making the case that he suspected two people who *truly* loved each other would find it almost impossible to remain chaste for much more than 2 years before marriage...because God just didn't make us to go that long without wanting or trying to unite with someone we loved that way (not to say people haven't fallen before 2 years or remained chaste after, but just generally). God meant this gift for husbands and wives to enjoy regularly, subject to mutually agreed to periods of abstinence.
Anyway, all to say, God bless your heart for sharing, Ted!
16. Elisabeth said the following at 12:59 PM on Mar 27:
Thanks for the post Ted! It encouraged me that I wasn't just an odd story out there.
I graduated with my associate's degree at the end of April last year, with no idea what God had planned for me after graduation.
After prayfully looking around for a job, He led me to a youth/missions secretary job through a friend. It is the perfect job for me and I enjoy it throughly! However, God also had other plans for me through taking this job. My future husband also worked at the same church.
I first met him at the end of July 2006. It wasn't until Thanksgiving that I realized he was pursuing me and that is when he finally asked me out with my parents permission. By February he asked me to marry him, and the date we have set for and are planning our wedding for is June 30, 2007 less then a year after we met.
It is so exciting how God works--you can see His hand in many areas of our relationship just through the right timing of us getting together when we were both ready, obstacles that could have been insurmountable in other circumstances--the whole thing is just amazing and I'm excited to be able to see Him working through my life. I can't wait to see what He'll do through my future husband and I as we work as a team after we're married.
17. Alison said the following at 1:18 PM on Mar 27:
Thanks for sharing this story, Ted! My husband and I have a similar one. We met in November 2005, went on our first date on December 23rd, got engaged on February 27th, and married in September 2006. He initiated everything, was very purposeful, and our relationship was blessed by both our families. At almost 26, he had been preparing for a wife for 5 years. While I was a few years younger, I had reached the point of, "Hey, if God dropped someone really amazing into my life right now, I could see myself getting married soon." I hadn't expected a wedding within 10 months, but God made it clear to us and those around us that this was, indeed, the right time. In fact, when he proposed only 7 week into our official relationship, comments such as "it's about time!" and "I thought that would happen this week!" came at me from all sides.
It's wonderful to hear similar stories. "Quick" marriages aren't very culturally acceptable these days, it seems.
18. Alison said the following at 1:35 PM on Mar 27:
MP,
You do have a point. I think that in my case, part of the reason we were able to move so quickly is that there was an abundance of evidence to indicate that each of us was exactly who we claimed to be. We both come from strong Christian families that revolve around solid marriages. Our respective histories were well-documented. We each have extremely supportive communities of origin. Neither of us had been in any previous romantic relationships. He was financially more than prepared for marriage, with a stable job, no debt whatsoever (not even school or car loans), and even a head start on savings and investments. Likewise, I didn't have any school or car loans, although I am still in college.
It's true, one year isn't always appropriate. But I think that if most people would wait to date (and then date purposefully!) until they were in a place where marriage within 12 months was a possibility, a lot of heartache could be avoided. Again, it's not for everyone, but sometimes I think that for those who should most consider it, external pressure to conform to our culture's preferred timeline can be very harmful.
19. Jay said the following at 1:50 PM on Mar 27:
I dated my wife for 18 mos. before getting engaged, so all told it took us 2.5 yrs from first date to wedding day! Those were a fun 2.5 yrs, and we're having more fun now!
I also know folks that got married in 2 weeks after meeting and are still together a decade later!
Who knows how much time you need?
20. Sina said the following at 3:14 PM on Mar 27:
I think everyone's timeline for courtship will be different depending on individual circumstances. I personally would desire a shorter timeline since I just turned 35 this month. Age makes a huge difference. Not to say I would be in a huge rush either. I would like to know the person pretty well.
21. Claire said the following at 4:36 PM on Mar 27:
Ted, thank you for sharing your story. At this point in my life, I have more married friends than unmarried. I have seen relationships go so many ways, and nearly always work out well. I have friends who went from meeting for the first time to being married in just nine months. I have other friends who knew each other for years, but their courtship/engagement was only 4 months.
Then there are two or three couples who have had a 3+ year relationship. In fact, right now I have two friends, each involved in a courtship relationship, who won't be getting married until 2011, due to one or both of them being in college. Their parents have all given their full blessing for the relationships and timelines. I am in a nearly identical situation. Both of us are in school, and won't be ready to get married until 2011. However, in all three relationships, the couples live at least 5 hours apart from each other, and don't see each other much. I believe non-long-distance relationships can be very difficult, and even dangerous if they are very prolonged. If I lived in the same town as my boyfriend, something drastic would have to change, because at least for us, we'd be in far too much danger of losing our purity prematurely. As it is, things are not nearly so intense.
So I think my overall point is: God leads each couple differently. He leads some in a short time, and others He leads through a much longer journey. But in ALL relationships, the most important thing is to keep the focus on God. If a couple does that He will lead. All we have to do is follow.
22. James said the following at 4:56 PM on Mar 27:
While I'm 'just' 23, I don't want to dawdle around once I meet that special girl. Sure, I also don't want to be in too big of a hurry, but my engineer mind operates on the idea of "Why wait longer than you need?" If I know she's the right one, and that we're both ready for marriage, and there's nothing that would make it prudent for us to wait longer before marriage, then why wait? Same with the engagement: why wait longer than necessary. Make it long enough for premarital counseling and planning the wedding.
23. Darin said the following at 5:18 PM on Mar 27:
Thanks for sharing your story, Ted! I see it as a testimonial for how well the courtship method (with the elements of intentionality, purpose and mentoring) can work when done right.
It's like building a house. If you have a good set of blueprints (intentionality & purpose); skilled framers, drywallers, roofers, etc. (mentors) then the house can be built in much less time than if you try to do-it-yourself without a plan. (Not to mention the quality of the end product.)
24. Shoeless said the following at 6:44 PM on Mar 27:
As a single man, it's good to be reminded that the process of getting to know my future wife doesn't absolutely have to take several years.
It's also good to be reminded of the need for intentionality and submission to God in relationships. Neither of these seem common in many of the relationships I've observed, especially intentionality.
I'm really going to be working on being honest and intentional in my relationships - it's an area where I've failed miserably so far. I'm sure that I could have avoided a lot of pain if I'd been more intentional and communicated more openly and honestly.
25. BDB said the following at 7:03 PM on Mar 27:
Wow! Hit from both sides!
Let me repent on one point - I misread grad school as undergraduate. I would have phrased it differently had I read more closely. I misread the story as another example of folks who met in college.
The point I was trying to make relationships progress much faster when you have a lot of time to devote to them. And I really should be comparing an undergraduate working 20 hrs/wk to a professional position that's 50-60 hrs/wk. Those other 30-40 hours make a HUGE difference in what you can accomplish socially.
If God gives you the go-ahead to get married in 12 months, that's wonderful. If God tells you to wait 5 years while he teaches you stuff, it still might be God providing direction.
26. Steve Watters said the following at 8:24 PM on Mar 27:
Gina mentioned Dr. Dobson's encouragement not to rush into a marriage. This is advice Dr. Dobson shares in his book Romantic Love. He encourages spending time with someone through each season of a year and not letting infatuation drive the relationship. He does, however, come back in the discussion questions and imply that couples can wait too long.
As concerned as Dr. Dobson was with the force of infatuation in that book, he was also concerned with the force of sexual temptation.
There's value in a couple progressing through the seasons of a year while exploring their readiness for marriage. But sexual temptations tend to grow as the relationship matures. A couple who continually pushes marriage further out into the future has a harder time staying pure. Many couples find a way to stay pure in extended relationships, but unfortunately many others buy more time by opening their sexual release valves.
This is an issue that has to be considered in any conversation about the length of a dating/courting relationship.
27. Jade said the following at 9:24 PM on Mar 27:
Boy do I ever wish I could meet some of you folks in person! Reading your stories is so encouraging to me. I married my husband in 2003 when I was 19 and he was 20 and we were going into our fourth year of college at a well know very liberal west coast university. I think we were the only married people in our class of thousands. We really struggle to find happily married young Christian couples with whom to build friendships, I'm always encouraging my single friends towards marriage so that they can experience our joy. My marriage is the greatest blessing and I thank God for the last four years and pray for many more.
28. Aaron said the following at 9:50 PM on Mar 27:
If you had presented me with this a few years ago, I would have laughed at this blog, thinking there would be little chance for a successful marriage to take root in such a situation. However, I had the opportunity of meeting a couple that completely proved me wrong. The guy asked her to marry him after they had only dated for three months! They married shortly after. I was naturally in shock when they told me this, because they are the most compatible couple I think I've ever met and they have such a strong relationship built on God's love. Me? I think I would want to wait a little longer than that to ask "the question", but clearly God can orchestrate things according His timing instead of ours.
29. Paula said the following at 10:12 PM on Mar 27:
As I read it, Ted's post focusses on intentionality. That is, intentionality in courtship can shorten the time needed to get to know each other to some level.
Here's another reason why intentionality in courtship is a good idea: if the relationship does not result in marriage, less of each person's time was 'wasted' on the 'unfruitful' courtship. (We all know, though, that a courtship conducted in purity and wisdom will yield valuable lessons, even if not marriage.)
A case in point: one still-single thirty-something I know regrets dating three-odd men in her twenties for several years each, as she feels these unintentional men robbed her of time and opportunity to get married in her prime childbearing years.
30. Syrex314 said the following at 11:49 PM on Mar 27:
Ted-- thanks for sharing your story! I'd like to see more examples of how people met and married their spouses. It's a heck of a lot more encouraging to hear real stories than to endure more advice on the topic.
31. Christina said the following at 12:37 AM on Mar 28:
This is my first time ever visiting this site, and how interesting = the first blog I come across is about something very relevant to my life right now.
Thanks for sharing your story. Despite the criticism your story has received, I have no doubt that the issue at hand is NOT the amount of time that it took for things to progress. The issue is, like you said, the fact that you were committed to purity, and accountability. You were open to letting every aspect of your relationship with this woman be shown to others. You were not intent on keeping anything "hidden" or "private" between the two of you, which is always the safest. From what I read, I could see no intention of "getting it done in under a year" or "right at a year" or whatever. Sometimes God just makes it happen that soon. For others it could be longer. Patience does not concern itself with time.
God bless you in your marriage! I'm sure you will raise your children to follow the same relationship practices that brought you to your wife. As time goes on and views like this become less and less common, it will be wonderful to know that such a beautiful concept is still alive "out there".
32. Bec said the following at 1:07 AM on Mar 28:
thanks for sharing your story!
I'd never envisioned anything other than a nice long friendship developing into something more, I have since had to eat my "ideals" and give over to God my neatly mapped out plans.
It's certainly been a curious but beautiful ride.
33. M Castillo said the following at 2:32 AM on Mar 28:
Hey guys,
I've had the desire to have these picture perfect romances, but not to shoot you down, but it seems very unrealistic to the average person...
anyways, I've been dating my GF for over one year. From the start we talked about getting married within the first year but due to circumstances we have to wait another year and a half or so. Where I was so convinced at first we were meant for each other, I have doubting spells every few months and have been on the verge of breaking up a half dozen times... I'm not sure if this is a negative sign or just part of manhood... any help!?!? Please!
34. EmmaLee said the following at 9:53 AM on Mar 28:
M. Castillo,
I would say that what's really going on totally depends on what your doubts are. I tried breaking up with my husband when we were engaged at least twice. Both times because I thought I was too young to marry and wouldn't make him a good wife. If you doubt because of worrying about being able to care for her or being totally compatable, I wouldn't sweat it. No couple agrees on everything. But if you are worrying about how you really feel about her, or how you match up spiritually, those worries deserve more attention.
I was always told that you should try to picture your future together. If you can see yourself living happily with the other person for the rest of your life than go for it. But after getting married myself, I have a slightly different perspective. I know that there were at least 3 men I knew in college that I could have lived my whole life with happily. But only one of those, I couldn't have lived without.
My husband says he never had any doubts towards marrying me. Rather, he couldn't wait to get married before I changed my mind (especially after I tried breaking up with him twice). I've also had other guy friends who were set on breaking up with their fiancees, but realized that they were happier with them, got married, and are doing great.
My best advice is to pray and seek advice from older Chrisian men in your church or family to find out what their experiences were.
35. Sarah said the following at 11:55 AM on Mar 28:
My fiance asked me to be his bride a little over a month after we started dating. It was such a relief to date someone who was seriously considering marriage in the near future!
36. m Castillo said the following at 12:26 PM on Mar 28:
Emma,
Thanks for the encouragement, I've talked to my two pastors, one says it's normal for me to doubt and the other that he "always knew." I feel so comfused ya know. But yes, I've been praying and been on the verge a couple times of breaking it off, but I always told myself it deserved another chance. Thanks
37. Holly said the following at 12:41 PM on Mar 28:
What is the James Dobson model? How does it differ?
38. Ariana said the following at 1:21 PM on Mar 28:
The James Dobson model is probably more typically what we see in relationships nowadays. Dating for multiple years, with breakups in between. Honestly, when I heard the Focus broadcast about Dobson and his wife's dating relationship, I was more than a little surprised. It bears little resemblance to the courtship model, and did seem to involve a lot of game playing--though I'm not trying to judge Dr. Dobson. Nonetheless, on the Focus broadcast featuring Joshua Harris, Dobson fully supported what he was saying and encouraged others to follow his advice.
39. KJ said the following at 3:26 PM on Mar 28:
I haven't read the book that Steve referenced, but I had thought along the same lines -- spending time with the person through all the seasons of the year, and being sure of our "fit" together through all of those times. Though not officially diagnosed, I have believed since childhood that I suffer from seasonal depression. I know that my outlook on life changes drastically through the year. So a guy could hypothetically meet me in April or May, think I'm great (because I'm very upbeat at that time of year) propose by Christmas (when I'm still doing okay) and find that in the dark days of January/February, things look pretty bleak in my world. (Not that I advocate letting one's feelings and emotions dictate everything -- it's just possible to be very different during different times of year.)
I know this about myself, and am glad that my boyfriend has seen me through various times of year and still wants to stick around.
Of course, if I didn't know myself well enough to know that seasonal changes are a big part of who I am, I wouldn't know myself well enough to consider getting married at all.
40. Amber said the following at 5:42 PM on Mar 28:
I'd like to offer a different perspective. I was in a courtship which we entered into saying that we would be looking toward marriage, and only separating if we felt God leading so. He proposed within 5 months of meeting and beginning to court and I said yes, as the peace and direction God had granted us both was so clear. Then two months into our engagement, he became a whole different man, and he called off our relationship, the whole time treating me in a way that did not honor God. So I'm now skeptical and thinking that maybe you really do need time to experience ALL of a person, time after the happy "we've just met" and "we're newly in love" stages. I really do feel that short is still the best, if indeed God is in the middle of it, but my practical side is having a hard time agreeing :) Any thoughts or others with similar experiences?
41. Ted Slater said the following at 6:04 PM on Mar 28:
Amber -- a big benefit of a "courtship" is that you are expected to seek input from parents, mentors or pastors.
I would have advised the two of you to do just that.
I'm not saying you were doing this, but premarity sexual activity introduces a lot of confusion into a Christian relationship. If that was happening with the two of you, again, one of the best things to do is to stop that and to set up some system of accountability (with parents, mentors, or a pastor).
42. Ashleigh said the following at 6:17 PM on Mar 28:
Amber, I'm so sorry to hear about your experience.
Honestly, I don't think it's possible to experience ALL of the person before marriage. It would be interesting to talk to a couple who did wait a few years before getting married and have now been married at least a decade. I wonder if they'd comment that they're still learning about the other person -- how they react to different situations and circumstances. Therefore, we
For example, courtship or dating, even over the course of several years, may not provide an opportunity to see how the other person handles grief or being laid off from a job. It may not show how they handle someone close to them divorcing or being diagnosed with a sickness. There can be so many experiences in life that we can't prepare for or be given the chance to observe another walking through.
43. Laura said the following at 7:03 PM on Mar 28:
KJ, I understand your concerns of being with someone long enough so they see you in all seasons. I've also struggled with depression and v. low self esteem in my past, and while it's not something I'm proud of (and no longer has any hold over me), it's made me who I am today. When my boyfriend and I began dating, I let him know about my past and how it helped shaped me, and how it still affects me today. Shortly into our courtship, I had a really bad season - only a couple of days, but enough to let him see what went on inside my head sometimes - and he was prepared for it because I had let him know. If God is calling you to a shorter courtship/engagement period, you're not going to know everything about your partner - that's half the fun of being married! But it's also wise to fill them in on your past, so they understand you and are prepared for seasonal 'lows', or any consequences you may still be facing.
44. ag said the following at 8:17 PM on Mar 28:
Hi Amber,
I know that your broken engagement had to be a very difficult and painful time. However, you seem to be using the experience constructively. Good for you!!
As far as the time that it takes to really know someone...I have heard counselors (Christian counselors) advise at least 2 years "dating" or "courting" and then 1 year engagement. In total, at least 3 years from meeting to vows. Bad or abusive behavior is almost always revealed or indicated by year two.
Finally, consulting parents and pastors is important. However, abusers are often experts at charming people in positions of influence. Therefore, the approval of older mentors or parents is important, but no substitute for time.
45. smash said the following at 11:00 PM on Mar 28:
I guess what wanted to comment about is a little off topic but ohwell. I think it's important to realize that every person is different and that concept carries over to when we are looking at couples. Some people feel they are ready to get married soon after beginning to date. Others (like myself) have not felt so ready to get married and have decided to date for a longer period of time. What absolutely drives me crazy is my boyfriend (of 3 years) and I are constantly getting asked "When are you going to get married." I almost feel sometimes like their is this pressure or expectation that if you are a Christian couple you have to be married in certain time period. For a variety of reasons it is not realistic for my boyfriend and I to get married and although I wish we could sometimes I am ok with just dating now; I just wish everyone else ok with us dating too and would ease off in pressuring us.
46. Laura said the following at 12:55 AM on Mar 29:
If I may just echo smash's thoughts....we're all unique!!! For those who don't like the thought of rushing into marriage, a little inspiration:
One of my friends was married last year (finally) after dating for the past few years. Her husband is a few years older than her and so he waited while she finished high school before they married. She turned 19 shortly after their wedding, but this couple are absolutely amazing and I look up to them and look to them for guidance in my own relationship. Not everyone's circumstances mean you can marry within a year, but that's not the end of the world. I guess in closing - don't stress, God's timing for everyone is unique and perfect!
47. Liz said the following at 5:37 AM on Mar 29:
My parents met in May (1979) and were married in December of that year.
My husband and I were "together" of sorts for four years - we worked out we liked each other as I was about to start my final year of high school, and he his second-last. We put any sort of courtship on hold until toward the end of his final year of high school. Less than a year later we were engaged. We had a longer than optimal engagement (18 months) because we decided not to marry until I'd finished my degree... five years of marriage later we're still going strong.
If two mature Christian people are in a position to marry, there is no reason why you couldn't get married in a year (or less as my parents' 27yr marriage attests to) but I don't think that it is necessarily the point. I think the point is that the relationship was prayerful, accountable and God-honouring. Isn't that the point with most things?
Liz
48. ciku said the following at 7:08 AM on Mar 29:
Interesting story.
I think that it happens differently for everyone and there is no 'ideal' we should all be prepared for anything. We cant put God in a box and say 'it has to heppen this way'. Im one of those who would prefer a long friendship period followed by an equally long courtship period then an average engagement period....then marriage. ha! no wonder im still single :-) . i need to forget my ideals. Thanks Ted.
49. Marci said the following at 10:18 AM on Mar 29:
Becky F,
I am a little concerned that you've used your sister and her now husband as an example of why some couples need to wait longer to be married. According to the Bible - as I'm sure we've read many a time - the marriage bed is to be pure. It seems that your example can be viewed as a reason why people should follow God's paramaters, not their own. The Bible makes it clear that it is 'better to marry than to burn' - this is a principle that is to be followed regardless of the ages of the people involved(which is perhaps why many Godly counsellors discourage dating/courting at overly young ages, but that's another topic altogether...) Perhaps your sister's premarital sexual encounters would have been avoided had she married at the beginning of college.
Here's an encourging example of that may speak to this issue: A good friend of mine and her now husband realized that they were meant to be married, and after a year of courtship, they married. On the day of her marriage, she was 17 years old. She and her husband have now been married for over six years, they now have a child, and are doing great in ministry together! Needless to say, *many* people discouraged them because of their age, but they decided to follow the guidelines set up in scripture regardless of what friends would say.
While I will conceed that some people, for certain reasons, must wait a little longer to be married, I think that we must be very careful not to confuse society's wisdom with God's.
Blessings to you!
50. m Castillo said the following at 10:25 AM on Mar 29:
OK, So I was praying and felt like I couldn't give 100% of my heart to her so yesterday I told her I couldn't do this anymore, that I couldn't continue with as much doubt as I had and that it's not fair to her so I called it off.
It hurts so much and I know it even hurts her more, but I felt peace, if you will, about the whole thing even though I've been crying... I told her I needed clarity and I needed to be 100% sure we were meant to be together because it will make me twice the man I would be if I was only giving her 90% of my heart.
There have been times where I have been 100% sure but then I've become somewhat fickle, double minded. I don't know if the world has come in and had too much influence or what, but it hurts like a mofo...
We both miss each other and can't stand it, which she suggests is a sign of the permanence of our relationship... I somewhat agree but I want to hear from God 100% so I will not be shaken again.
For those about to say "God doesn't always speak to you like that"... if this is the biggest decision besides salvation, God will make His plan for us clearly known. PAINFUL
51. K said the following at 12:36 PM on Mar 29:
I think one thing needs to be clear before we comment on Ted's blog, this is not about should we wait long to "really" know the person or marry quickly to avoid temptation.
The point he is making is simply that it IS possible for christian singles to be married in less than a year, case in point - himself. This blog is not about whether a year is the right amount of time deemed acceptable.
Also I do agree that it is advisable to get to know the person for a good enough period of time and that character will reveal it self through time but we should also realise that God does speak to us and can lead us specifically if we ask him to towards how long a courtship to marriage should be. There is nothing wrong with remaining friends if the possibility of marriage is that far away down the line, if anything that can only serve to help in getting to know them better and building a friendship you're going to need to have before marriage anyway.
52. Becky F. said the following at 12:54 PM on Mar 29:
Marci you said:
"I am a little concerned that you've used your sister and her now husband as an example of why some couples need to wait longer to be married. According to the Bible - as I'm sure we've read many a time - the marriage bed is to be pure. It seems that your example can be viewed as a reason why people should follow God's paramaters, not their own. The Bible makes it clear that it is 'better to marry than to burn' - this is a principle that is to be followed regardless of the ages of the people involved(which is perhaps why many Godly counsellors discourage dating/courting at overly young ages, but that's another topic altogether...) Perhaps your sister's premarital sexual encounters would have been avoided had she married at the beginning of college."
I understand your concerns. I only included the fact that she got pregnant before they got married to provide a reason why they got married a year earlier than their original plan. My point about the waiting a longer time was that they started dating at 15 years old. Yes, they probably should have gotten married right out of highschool, but my parents did not allow that, and I think they were wrong in doing so, but at least my sister respected my parents wishes and didn't elope behind everyone's backs.
I'm sorry to say this, but you made me a little upset pointing out the Biblical principles about sex. I screwed up myself two months before my wedding, but I don't need to be crushed by the Law again when I've already been convicted by my guilt and repented of my sin. I can't speak for my sister because I don't know what private conversations she shares with her husband or God, but I'm sure she felt very ashamed and guilty of her sin when she had to tell my parents she was pregnant and not yet married.
53. girlyG said the following at 3:34 PM on Mar 29:
To the original poster, I just want to say congratulations to you and your wife:) I have winessed a good bit in the past couple of years that when a man (young or older)finds the woman he wants to marry, he usually snaps her up within months.
Would you mind praying for me? I recently asked a youg man to clarify his intentions, and he hasn't talked to me since. (He's 26)Thanks
54. Ted Slater said the following at 5:03 PM on Mar 29:
GirlyG -- it's my prayer that the Lord comfort your heart during this period and give you a confidence that He is sovereign, and that the man you speak of is provoked to make clear his intentions with you. Amen.
55. Kyle said the following at 12:18 AM on Mar 30:
With all this talk about marriage and whatnot, it seems like a couple of things seem to have been forgotten. First, I'm not sure that the length of the dating/courtship period matters as much as most people have been pointing out (whether short or long). Some people seem to have grasped at least parts if not all, but the thing that should stand out is not the length of time that was involved, but the manner in which that time was spent.
The manner of how the time was spent is two fold. First, what activities were involved (how frequent, how long, and how much interaction, and quality of interaction). This does include getting to know someone well enough that you are able to know them spiritually, know people that have spent time with them and can attest to their character, and where you won't be surprised that you've married a serial killer. However, we should not get to the point where we know every fault in a person since then there is a good chance that we could be scared off from marrying someone because of their faults. Everyone has them, and the most successful marriages I've seen are the ones where the couple works through any disagreements that arise. Whether its over how the kids are raised or if the toilet seat is left up or down.
The second manner of how time is spent is that of accountability and doing things the way that God calls us to do them. Boundless has consistently said that there are no explicit commands premarital relationships, it seems as though all the relationships that have succeeded all sought to honor God first. Shouldn't that be the main focus of everything we as Christians do?
It seems to me that the people that have marriage that work after simply a year worked for those relationships and were accountable to their church, family, and people that have already been where the engaged couple were making their journey.
Lastly, I don't think that there is any reason why as Christians we should bring in God's intentions for purity into any discussion relating to marriage. Once again, as Christians we may take things for granted, but reminders are always good. I for one am not married, wish I was still pure, have repented, and will be the first to tell anyone what God's plan is, and why its best to follow that plan even though it may bring up bad memories (it does for me), but I know that whatever happens to us, God will use it to bring him Glory. If we'll let him.
56. Marci said the following at 9:55 AM on Mar 30:
Becky F and Kyle,
First Becky F: You've expressed that you felt 'crushed by the Law' and 'upset' when I brought up the biblical principles of not having sex until marriage.
Now Kyle: You've expressed that you feel there's no need for christians to 'bring up God's intention for purity when discusing marriage'.
I really, *really* do believe some things must be said here. Becky F, I didn't know of your personal situation when you wrote your post (If you made mention of this in your original post, I honestly did not see it). But as Christians, we must not veer from what the word of God says. There are *numerous* pastors who have given up teaching on God's desire that we be pure until marriage precisely because people in their churches have fallen in this area, and they don't want to make anyone feel guilty. I believe this is absolutely wrong. I know it may be uncomfortable for people who have made mistakes in this area to hear these 'reminders,' but we must speak the truth in love - we cannot continue to sidestep the issue because feathers will be ruffled. Doing so prevents others from having these useful reminders - the teachings of scripture are meant to be poured over and reiterated so that others who have not fallen in this area *do not fall*.
Which brings me to Kyle's comment - while you acknowledge these reminders, and are right that the blood of Christ can reedeem individuals when mistakes are made (absolutely - I wouldn't dream of disputing this), I believe there is an *integral* link between the discussion of purity and marriage. Most importantly, the Bible makes this link - this is not one randomly made by humans! The scripture about it being 'better to marry than to burn' explicilty makes this connection. As christians, we *must* - and are *instructed* by scripture - to consider our desires when pondering the timeline for marriage. From your post I can tell you've read many Boundless articles - and I therefore think you cannot honestly deny the many of these articles have pointed out the connection between purity and timelines for marriage. Of course, we are to do everything within our power - prayer, wise decision making, godly mentors, etc - to ensure that purity is maintained before marriage, but when such desires threaten to place the couple in a precarious position the bible says - not me - they are to marry.
My response to both these comments is based on scripture - I keep saying that as christians we can't become secularized and begin to ignore the scriptures intended for our guidance and success. We cannot use grace as an excuse for not teaching the whole counsel of the word of God - in our silence to keep those who have sinned and been forgiven comfortable, we may cause someone who would not have erred - and for whom such reminders would have been helpful - to sin. The church is not designed only for comfort; it is not to become an entertainment center where comfort is central at the expense of the word of God.
God can use anything to bring him glory - but he is always best served when his instructions are followed. We can't undermine the importance of follwing his commandments by saying 'God can use anything'.
Blessings to both of you!
57. Mandi said the following at 11:13 AM on Mar 30:
Marci, I'd second that.
The only thing I'd add is that feeling badly about our sins (and we ALL have them), whether sexual or not, isn't necessarily something that needs to destroy us. We can draw perspective and comfort from what God's Word has to say about guilt:
2 Cor. -- "8 For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death."
It's how we *use* our feelings of sorrow over our sins that matters. If our sorrow leads to repentance, that's what's important.
God bless.
58. Kyle said the following at 1:25 AM on Mar 31:
Marci - You are completely right in that in any discussion involving marriage, purity should be included. That was a typo on my part that I overlooked. Sorry for any confusion that this has caused.
59. Leah said the following at 8:18 AM on Mar 31:
Hmmm well. Me and my boyfriend started dating when I was 17 and he was 19- the beginning of my first year of uni (and the beginning of his second year.) We've been going out for almost 2 years and are looking at getting engaged sometime this year.
Mandi, you said "he suspected two people who *truly* loved each other would find it almost impossible to remain chaste for much more than 2 years before marriage". Is it difficult? I would say YES, in no uncertain terms! But impossible? No. I've witnessed many different courtship models that work...
I know a couple who got engaged less than a month after meeting each other (though it was only 'official' about 3 months later, and then they had a 10 month engagement or something.) I also know of other couples who knew each other for years, had a 6 month courtship, got engaged, then married. But I also know a couple who 'had their eyes on each other' their entire high school careers (though living in other towns- they saw each other once year on a camp.) They started dating when he moved to her town for university. They dated/courted for 3 years before getting married and having a 10 month engagement. Did they remain pure? I guess I can't say for sure, but I would place money on the fact that they were. I know of another couple who dated on and off throughout their high school careers, then got engaged when she was a year and a half out of high school. And my parents dated for 5 years before getting married. However, they started dating when they were 17, then it became a long distance relationship for two years when Mum had to move to complete her degree, remained semi-long distance when Mum took up her first teaching position. It got to the point where Dad said "what would it take for them (the education department) to transfer you back home?"
Mum: "If something big happened, like a family member died, or I got married."
Dad: "Ok then, how about it?"
So while they had a 5 year courtship, 3 of those years were spent long-distance (1500km) and then semi-long distance (200km) with Mum coming home every weekend!
SO, in short- one year works for some, 2 years works for some, 3 years works for some, 6 months works for some- 5 years works for some. We don't know everyone's circumstances so we can't say they are wrong to put off marriage. Hopefully I'll be married shortly after finishing my degree!
60. Darin said the following at 5:38 PM on Mar 31:
I agree with Leah that we cannot say it's "impossible" to maintain purity through an extended courtship. Scripture tells us that God will not allow us to be tempted beyond what we can bear.
The way that I interpret "It's better to marry than to burn with passion" is that it's better to marry than to burn up all of your life's energy fighting temptation. Also, when Paul advised marriage for purity sake it wasn't because of the impossibility of the situation, but because of their "lack of self control".
To some it might seem that I'm splitting hairs here, but really I'm not. Seldom do people exceed their own expectations. Or another way of saying it; if you expect to fail...you will.
To all of those who have fallen and later repented: God has forgiven you! The hard part is forgiving yourself. I pray that you will find the grace to do that.
61. Becky F. said the following at 12:49 PM on Apr 2:
Darin said:
"To all of those who have fallen and later repented: God has forgiven you! The hard part is forgiving yourself. I pray that you will find the grace to do that."
Yes! And that is the point!
There is a proper distinction between when to tell someone the Law, and when to tell them the Gospel. If someone is unrepentant and telling you about their sin in a justifying manner, remind them that they are in the wrong. If someone is feeling the guilt of their sin (and telling their story as a reminder that even men & women after God's own heart mess up), remind them that God has forgiven them and forgotten their sin. Don't remind them about what they did wrong and "crush them with the Law" when that has already been done.
I think as Christians (and sinners) we can fall into two ways of thinking when it comes to others' sin. First, we either feel better about our own sin because we are not as "bad" as the other person, or we feel better about our own sin because somebody else is doing the same thing we're doing. Or second, we overlook our own sin and point fingers at others, like Jesus talked about in Matthew 7:2-4 and forget that all have equally sinned.
62. Jake said the following at 2:38 PM on Apr 2:
Boy, I'm late to this party, but I did want to say that though I've disagreed with the approach taken by many Boundless articles and blog entries on this topic, this is one I can get behind. It's not written in stone, as many seem to think it is, that a couple has to date for a year before getting enganged, and/or have a year-long engagement. I've been in a relationship in which the woman dragged things out, I believe unnecessarily, and it was frustrating to me. I would have gone ahead and gotten married in a heartbeat.
However, there is one point of Ted's that I disagree with, and that is that these notions of "intentionality and accountability" lead to a shortened dating/engagement period. I think Boundless is took quick to impute some of the... um, unusual views on dating and courtship it has begun promoting in the last year or two, ideas which as far as I can tell come mainly out of the Sovereign Grace movement, to conservative Christians as a whole. I don't think most American evangelical Christians would say that dating and engagement should or ideally would be relatively short periods of time. The more typical view among us has been that the decision as to whom to marry is such a serious and grave one, and that the divorce rate even in the church is so high, that on should be extremely cautious and take a long time to decide. I mean, as the very first commenter noted, James Dobson used to encourage people to wait to make sure they knew each other extremely well.
It may very well be that if a couple attending Covenant Life or Capitol Hill Baptist approached their pastors, elders, or older couples about counseling and accountability, they would be encouraged to make a decision sooner rather than later. But in most conservative churches, the advice would be informed by a "better safe than sorry" attitude about marriage and would involve exhortations to take it slow lest one make any rash decisions. In fact, I'd say that if a Christian couple were truly in love, and excited about being together, by themselves they would likely plan to get married sooner than they would be advised to if they sought counsel about their relationship from their elders.
63. Marci said the following at 5:00 PM on Apr 2:
Becky F,
No one, including myself, used the law to pummel anyone else. This would have been the case if I or anyone else had addressed you directly. As this was not the case (no one knew of your situation prior, at least to my knowledge), I don't think we're all talking about the same things.
Let me be frank: if, as Christians, posters cannot even bring up a biblical principle in the context of a discussion and examples given - and things are taken personally when they are not personally addressed - then the real issue is, too, a personal one. I had no idea merely bringing up a scriptural principle would cause such a stir amongst Christians!
As well, it seems fair that if an individual is confused about an example given, it's fair to ask for clarification, especially if the example would seem to imply something unscriptural, which is what I did. Your response and thoughts explained where you were comming from, but I really didn't anticipate such a violent reaction.
In short, I don't think it was fair to accuse me of crushing you with the law when that was not my intent AND that was not how my answers or questions of you were phrased - how could I be crushing you with the law when my response was'nt even about - or directed to - you?!? I mentioned these principles in the context of your sister to explain why clarification was needed.
THAT'S why I pointed out the importance of individuals not being selfish (ie. expecting the church not to discuss certain sins because it makes them uncomfortable). I ABSOLUTELY believe in forgiveness, grace, and repentance (many posters have done an excellent job of highlighting these important scriptural concepts). I feel that this site is a place where we can all exchange thoughts and challenge each other to think in useful/different ways as we live out our Christian walks; therefore, I felt that the questions I raised were appropriate in this context.
Let me be clear: I would be just as adamant if we were discussing dishonesty, unkindness, impatience, slander, or any other number of other vices in the church. I don't believe there's a 'sin scale' on which some sins are worse than others.
So if you had given an example about lying, and I reasoned/queried as I had, I wonder if it would have caused such a stir? Your response reveals that you're very sensative about this issue; but I feel like the way this 'crushed with the law' discussion has turned is unfair to/unrepresentative of the intent - and the actual written content of - my posts.
I stand by what I said because it is scriptural, and I cannot be justly accused of what your post implies occured.
But all in all, still blessings to you!
64. Becky P said the following at 5:07 AM on Apr 3:
I'm currently in a relationship with a fantastic Christian guy. We've been together nearly a year and a half now, but we live a couple of hundred miles away and get to see each other only once or twice a month due to church and family commitments on both our parts. My boyfriend is 4 years older than me and works full time, whilst I'm on a gap year working full time to save for university. We are both set on getting married once I've finished uni, but that's not for another 3 or 4 years. We've decided to wait til then, a) so we can both be in a good financial position to start a life and family together (I've saved a lot of money this year so I'll have much smaller debt when I finish uni, and my boyfriend will have paid off his car loan by December so he's going to save the money he would have been paying for that, for our future), b) so I can grow in maturity, and c) to give us time to spend more time together; we know we can't go from seeing each other once or twice a month for little more than 24 hours, to seeing each other all day every day for the rest of our lives, and expect it to go smoothly. When I go to uni I will be a lot closer to him, so we hope we'll be able to see each other more often. Is it wrong for us to postpone marriage for so long? We'd get married tomorrow if we could, but for us, waiting a bit longer seems to be the best thing to do.
65. Marci said the following at 8:40 AM on Apr 3:
Becky P,
I don't think any of us can say if it's wrong or not better than you can. Both you and your boyfriend are right to try to get a sound financial start.
HOWEVER, only you and him know the physical intensity of your relationship. This is not to imply that as Christians we should be fooling around -- far be it from me to imply this! But, if you and him are at the point -- or get to a point -- where even with accountability, even with Godly mentors, even with wise decision making you struggling (ie. your burning with passion as Paul speaks of), your FIRST consideration in whether to get married or not is no longer financial - biblically, you must give your physical desires precedent.
There were a few helpful boundless articles on this topic -- one I remember talked about how we should be careful not to delay marriage for chiefly financial reasons (which are often connected to material ones). I'll try looking up these articles, and see if I can't send you a post with the relevant boundless articles linked or something, or at least the titles....
But yeah -- if physical desire isn't an issue as Paul speaks of, financial planning (especially in light of the rediculous amount of debt many many Christians are in, and the concept that 'the borrower is servant to the lender' from scripture) is wise and good with respect to choosing a wedding date! Just make sure if your desires naturally progress in spite of the godly checks put in place, and Paul's warning becomes particularly relevant lol, you're willing to follow the wisdome of scripture.
Also, pray about this as a couple! Together, seek the wise counsel of mentors, youth pastors, etc -- the bible says that 'in a multitude of counselors there is safety!'As long as you're guided by the scriptures, you're set to go!
Blessings to you!
66. Marci said the following at 9:33 AM on Apr 3:
Hi Becky P!
Here are links to boundless articles that mention the connection between getting married and finances. You can use these to question yourself as to whether your financial reasons for postponing marriage are sound, or if you may be too concerned about finances ....
The first link particularly got my attention - it's the one I was referring to - and the others were really helpful (a few of them talk about more than just this issue, but they are good reads anyways!)
Hope this Helps:
http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001316.cfm
http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001244.cfm
http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001422.cfm
http://www.boundless.org/2002_2003/departments/beyond_buddies/a0000687.html
Blessings to you (I Really hope these links all work; Let me know if they don't)!
67. Becky P said the following at 8:52 AM on Apr 10:
Hi Marci, thanks for your comments and the articles. I've had a read an I've sure got a lot to think about now! Think I'll be making a call tonight too!
God bless, Becky
68. Deidre H said the following at 12:41 AM on May 15:
WOW, this was DEFINITELY on time...I just so happened to read this article and then the comments and wow...
I met my boyfriend last year and we started courting a year ago. We began seriously discussing marriage by December and we have not yet talked to my parents about it or his. For one, neither of us is stable enough by any means. I understand from several posts I've read that it's not wise to wait to get married purely for financial reasons, which is exactly what we've been doing. And also I fear that my parents will want us to wait until I finish school. However, that is another two years off and we feel that we cannot wait that long. So I definitely feel the pressure to wait, but at least I know now that there's nothing wrong with us not wanting to wait to get married! My parents want my sisters and I to see the world, experience some things and be on our own before we get married, that we shouldnt marry so young...but I have met the man I want to marry and I dont see why I can't see the world with him! This article just confirms what my mentor has said, along with others, including a dear friend who married his wife within 4 months of meeting her, that in the end, it's what GOD says that matters! wow, this definitely made things crystal clear for me!