Friends While Single
by Ted Slater on 03/30/2007 at 12:14 PM
In his article published yesterday, "Biblical Dating: Just Friends," Scott Croft identifies different types of friendship experienced by single adults. There's the type that unintentionally "invites confusion and frustration," and there's the type that's enjoyed within the "context of community."
He's not trying to pour cold water on the rich friendships singles can share, but rather bring clarity to an area that sometimes invites confusion and "delays the good."
What do you think? Have you experienced these two types of friendship? Are there other kinds of friendship?
I'd love to hear your comments, but request that before you press the "post" button you read what Scott wrote.
101. BrooX said the following at 11:37 PM on Apr 11:
Hey N,
Thanks for having the courage to share your experience and thanks for lending support for the guys who are willing and seeking to serve women by being as close brothers in Christ. It's nice to know that some women appreciate it and that not all Christian women will completely forsake a guy if he hasn't asked her out within a few weeks of meeting her. Sounds like you're willing to put the time into learning to understand and communicate with your friends. And that's the basis of most rewarding relationships - of all kinds.
God speed to you!
102. xeres said the following at 11:54 PM on Apr 11:
N, I understand what you trying to say. There are great things when you have good guy friends but I would suggest to people should have close more same-sex friends than opposite-sex people. Much more in fact. I mean, I have at least 5 close friends that are female and one that is male. I have a couple more guy friends, just not as close friends. There's a reason why Scott wrote about this topic and why most of the people in this post feel the way they do. In fact the articles Not Your Buddy and J.Budziszewski's two part dating series http://www.boundless.org/2001/regulars/office_hours/a0000591.html" target="blank">Who's on First? (part one)" and The Moves (part two) shows the primary reasons why most of the people in the post share Scott's sentiments. Read them sometime when you had the chance. Then, you would understand.
103. xeres said the following at 12:05 AM on Apr 12:
Plus, that's how a lot of affairs happen too, which is one of the side effects of having too many intimate opposite sex friends before and after marriage.
104. Leah said the following at 12:31 AM on Apr 12:
N, I fully agree that you need to know someone for a while before dating them. But an intimate friendship? Totally not necessary, and more likely to cause awkwardness and problems than good.
105. Disagree said the following at 4:12 PM on Apr 12:
OK...I'm going to be the one who disagrees with the article. I agree that friendships with the opposite sex can develop and lead into a more romantic relationship. I also agree that you can have opposite sex friends and a romantic relationship with another. Speaking from experience, when I was married my husband at the time hated me having any opposite sex friends and destroyed all my great friendships because of his insecurities and control over me in who I am friends with or not. We DID NOT get divorced for this reason but there was a long standing hurt from it. I told myself that when God found that special person for me...that I want him to get to know my friends (male and female) and make them his friends also...and visa versa, unless there were strong gut feelings that didn't feel right.
I am now in an incredible relationship with a guy (I'll call Jake) and have many "just friends" of the opposite sex. "Jake" has gotten to know my friends and enjoys most of them. We go out all together and I also have lunch with my friends once in a while by myself. Jake is fine with this since he's gotten to know them. If for any reason, there is an issue of uncomfortablility with Jake with any of my friends we talk about it and evaluate if that friendship should continue.
I think a person needs to be mature about this and not just DUMP a long standing opposite sex friendship just because you are now involved. I think that is very cold, rude and selfish. I would never think of doing that to a friend!!!!!
I have been friends with a guy (I'll call Steve) for many years now and after Steve read this article he is now questioning our friendship... which really hurts. Jake is friends with Steve and really likes him. Now we are losing a friend over this article.
As Christians we need to think about others feelings as well. I am very happy in my relationship and with the opposite sex friends that I have and I have met alot of the opposite sex friends that Jake has. That's part of a relationship...encompassing your friendships...not DUMPING them.
any comments?
106. xeres said the following at 5:39 PM on Apr 12:
*sigh* Most of us (including myself) really like to make things complicated regarding of the relations between men and women. We just love to trive on that, even though it does more harm than good. Most of us don't really know how to not defraud one another. Good thing God isn't like that with us. Having good opposite sex friends is awesome. I mean, I have a good friend that is a guy for servel years. However, we can't underestimate romantic attraction however. Think about how do affairs start exactly. We all need to learn how to be direct at communications. No hints or inneudoes, please. The reason why my guy friend and I can have a bro & sis kind of friendship despite the fact that we spends years being at different schools (high school and college) is because we both know where we stand. We check from time to time. For a lot of the people here, we are not so clear. Women and men need to stop assuming too much.
107. BrooX said the following at 9:57 PM on Apr 12:
I agree, Xeres - "women and men need to stop assuming too much." While some assumptions may even be leaning on the side of sinful judgement, other assumptions may simply be due to less situational experience. One person's perception and common sense may seem absurd and completely illogical to another - even if they _are_ both serious Christians walking with the Lord. Perhaps somewhere between cynicism and naiveté is the healthy balance of wisdom and always looking for the best in people. ...sounds like there's a bit of 1Cor13 in there.
There's a hook line that I like from Josh Harris regarding relationships: 'what's the best thing you can do with your lips?' (that's the attention hook) The answer: "Communicate". That perception and communication stuff goes two ways; when one party is unsure or desires clarification, they should _ASK_ questions. I shouldn't put it all on someone else to figure out that I want clarification. I don't think I have any excuse to complain about uncertainty or lack of clarity in a relationship, job, ministry, or whatever if I'm not willing to ask for it and make a direct request.
Pastor Chip Ingram of Walk Through The Bible presses a lot regarding direct communication throughout much of his extensive relationship, marriage, & family material because really, these hinting and guessing games that us flawed, broken, sinful, and insecure people do in an effort to guard and protect ourselves - it just isn't very effective and it often leads to further distance and hurt down the road.
God speed sincerity and Truth!
108. Married too long for this silliness said the following at 1:59 PM on Apr 13:
Hello!
Let me say something about the idea of giving a "piece" of your heart to another and that being a bad thing.
There are all kinds of friendships in life, some with members of the opposite sex, some with members of the same sex, some with siblings or children (when they're grown). If you are only going to give love (a piece of your heart) to those you are CERTAIN will never go bad on you, you'll never have many good friendships. You'll be so focused on protecting your heart you won't love anyone but yourself! Please - You never are harmed by having loved someone!
Love is not a static commodity of which you only have a little bit! If that were true, a mother would love her first child 100% and then when the second child came along, each would only get 50% of their mother's love. After 10 children there would be no more love to go around.
Come on! Why is everyone so worried about their "hurt" feelings. Buck up for goodness sake. There is sooo much more to life than worrying about giving out a "piece" of your heart to the wrong person, or getting "hurt". My Goodness!
109. TSudds said the following at 4:45 PM on Apr 17:
Ok..so why is this the very thing that I've been telling myself for YEARS?? My friends tend to tease me, because I make myself unavailable for these types of friendships. Needless to say that I've remained committed to my values and celibate for longer than any of them. Which is not to say that I'm better in the least bit, but if a woman desires to live a chaste life in her committment to Christ when it comes to avoiding sexual sins, then this is the way to go. I'm so glad to finally read an article that clarifies why it is that I'm comfortable not engaging and even avoiding these types of male to female "friendships". I'm in the process of resurrecting hopes for a healthy God centered marriage after a really bad experience years ago and am grateful to have read this information. However, before any inkling of a desire for marriage ensued, I've never spent time with guys on the basis of getting to know eachother as "friends" and never will on the basis of "just getting to know someone intimately for the heck of it". People of the opposite sex were meant to attract one another and this is inevitable in a close intimate friendship. God Bless to All.
110. flying_eagle said the following at 11:44 PM on Jun 10:
I'm a Muslim. and I can relate very well to the principles presented in the article. As a Muslim, I also believe that it is unnatural to have close and intimate freindships with someone of the opposite gender(clearly evidenced by the heartache which usually ensues), but that there is nothing wrong with interacting w/ someone of the opposite gender, if there is a need to.
I think some of the comments here that mentioned having close freinds but not having any feelings for them, were really actually referring to freinds whom they werent very intimate with, and were not spending huge amounts of time with, but rather relying on for support and advice when needed. I'm sure they weren't hanging out 4 times a week.
Also, as a personal experience, before I was a practicing Muslim, I had this experience over and over again with most of my guy freinds. If we got 'close' in terms of being confidants, and really sharing our lives and spending lots of time together, either he fell for me or I ended up liking him. And when I didn't reciprocate his feelings, obviously I felt awkward continuing in the relationship and it would end.
111. Jeffrey said the following at 2:16 AM on Jun 28:
I found this article very enlightening and very helpful right now. It answered some questions I had developing as I have recently developed some very deep friendships with girls.
However, I still have other questions. One of the friendships I have is with a girl I work with. She is also a Christian, and I love her dearly as a close friend, but nothing more. There is also a Christian guy that works with us, and he is just as close with both of us as we are with each other.
The three of us hang out a lot, and have had very edifying talks multiple times. We really care for each other deeply, and share a bond with each other that others cannot quite seem to comprehend. We have helped and encouraged each other through many circumstances.
She has a boyfriend, and he has a girl he is essentially courting. I have interests elsewhere, but nothing official. In other words, we are all great friends but still have our eros energies directed elsewhere, if you will.
My question is, due to the fact that this is a 3-way relationship, and not a one-on-one setting, am I in the wrong to continue the close relationship I have with this girl? Are we essentially "protected" from each other because we are more than two?
I must add that on occasion we have done some things one-on-one, but this is by far the exception. The three of us do things together for the most part, but sometimes I drop her off or we get a meal together during our break at work. We are comfortable enough with each other that it is not awkward at all. Is this a bad thing? Is it okay? Is it less than ideal?
I am genuinely interested to hear any answers. I could use some direction right now.
112. Alex said the following at 9:35 AM on Jul 6:
First, I must confess that I have not read all the comments. However, after reading this article I had to stop. Through college I have built many friendships with girls. It in many ways strikes me odd to think that Scott views these as bad. I just wanted to point out that for many of these girls they did not understand what a Godly man was like. Being a friend and brother to them, I know that in some ways I have helped them, either by my example or by my conversations, to learn how a man of God acts. Not to say that I am a amazing person but compared to non-christian men they don't know that a christian man should treat them differently. By showing them respect and kindness I helped establish in their minds how a Christion guy should treat them. This helps them avoid men that act like a nice guy or a christian guy but may not truly love them as Christ. I know this is probably somewhat unclear but I wanted to say that from my experiences developing deeper friends with girls has not really been a bad thing. I must say though, that be constant in portraying a friendship and nothing more is vital.
113. Alex said the following at 9:46 AM on Jul 6:
Jeffrey,
This is my view and I don't think that it is the same as many others who have commented on this blog. I would say that your friendship with this girl is completely fine. Be aware of the fact that she is a girl and being careful to guard is important though. That being said, you don't have to constantly be questioning if every situation is okay because that will most likely make things awkward and I believe would more likely make issues arise.
Keep this friendship as a three-way encouragement. Hebrews 10:24-25 says, "and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembly together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the day drawing near." Before I get attacked for saying this is refering to church assembly let me say I know that. But, if this friendship you have is edifying and encouraging...well, in my view keep it.
114. Steve said the following at 9:10 PM on Jul 24:
Interesting article. I have a female
minister friend that is a Presbyterian
minister. I got to be friends with
her in my Singles Sunday School
Class. For about a year or two we
hung out togather and then I asked
her if there this was anything more
than a friendship to clarify things.
Boy, that question should not have
been asked. I think it intimateded my
friend and we did not see much of
each other for several years and
for these several years when we did
see each other as we passed there
was an uneasiness about it. The
uneasiness is past and I still see
my friend from time to time. The
chemistry is still there but she
just wants to be friends still and
still some confusion on my part.
She is not going to move back to
the city I am in and I am not going
to move to the city where she is.
If I were seriously going to want
to marry anyone I would choose her.
While you are at it pray about this
relationship
115. John said the following at 10:36 PM on Oct 3:
Totally agree with the articale:
we all have equal oppotuinity to choose same genders to be close our friends in order to avoid this type of potential risk. Is it wise for us to take the better option? Keep in mind this is not a right/wrong issue.
116. Donna said the following at 8:37 PM on Oct 5:
I just found this blog from a link to the article on a Christian young adult site. I must say that my case is extremely unlike anything described by the rest of you (of the posts that I read -- I did not read them all, I must admit). I have never had the opportunity to build a good friendship with a guy because they all try to approach me as a wife prospect before I even know if they can be a decent friend. So after I didn't fall into their arms, so to speak, they lost all interest in pursuing a friendship. Also, being an introvert, who I am is never exposed in group settings; so I sincerely doubt that anyone would get to know the real me via "group dating." Perhaps some of the scenarios and situations described in the article and this blog might be predicated upon some cultural assumptions that do not govern all of us.
117. tiffany said the following at 12:20 PM on Jul 11:
I agree with this article 100% too. In fact, I just came out of a relationship similar to the one Scott described. It was difficult and I didn't expect it to end up this way. Originally, we just started out as friends and then we began to hang out a lot one-on-one. It became more of an intimate friendship rather than just a normal friendship. Due to this, I developed feelings and the story follows through like the article.
I think its easy to have a friend of opposite sex if there's no intimacy, but when there is, the relationship can go astray.
118. Josh said the following at 1:50 PM on Sep 17:
The last comment got me thinking: what is the difference between a "normal" friendship and an "intimate" friendship? Are your relationships with your best friends considered intimate?
My best friend is a girl. We tell each other everything, we joke and hang out. It just happens that the person I have the most in common with is of the opposite sex. Should the two of us stop being friends because there's the possibility of someone wanting more than friendship?
Should our relationships with the opposite sex be strictly geared toward the possibility of marriage?
119. Dan said the following at 12:05 PM on Nov 4:
I have debated this subject in my mind for some time. On the one hand, I would greatly appreciate a friendship with a woman because of insights that she has that I do not. On the other hand, knowing that romantical feeling can arise has caused some me some anxiety for fear of sending "mixed signals."
I do have one option that I exercise quite frequently and that is a small group of singles that meet almost weekly. In this group, I can share myself without the fear of becoming too intimate with just one person. However, I would still like to get to know people on a more personal level.
I have seen the term "brothers and sisters in Christ" used a lot in these blogs. Don't some brothers and sisters talk to each about intimate matters in families? If they do it in families, why not in Christian families?
120. Joseph said the following at 10:26 AM on Nov 14:
I disagree with so much of what I am reading here.
I have a female best friend with whom I am so emotionally intimate that it makes me cry sometimes. We have both had feelings for each other at different times, and yet our life goals are too different for us to be husband and wife. We discussed these facts, painful though they are.
We both realize that heartbreak is in our future, but we accept that. I wil be heartbroken to see her with another man, but I love her so much that her happiness is the most important thing to me. She says feels likewise about me.
People talk about women being emotionally fragile, but so are men (or at least, so am I).
Regardless of marriage, we will always have a place for each other on our lives. We will always spend 1-on-1 time together, even if we do it less than we used to.
I fail to see why people need to be catagorized by gender. Why should someone write off a beautiful soul because of their body? What's next, a return to racial segrogation?
Though, on the subject of race, I'm white and she's black, which is another boundary we've crossed.
If she needed distance from me, I would give it to her. I even suggested it once, but we care too deeply for each other to be cut off.
I would never ask a wife to abandon her male friends, nor would I feel threatened if she had a close, male best friend. No one owns their spouse. If a spouse absolutely cannoted accept this, than perhaps the marriage was a mistake to begin with.
It disgusts me that anyone would push a friend away to avoid their own heartbreak. How selfish. If you truly love someone as a person, they should be important enough to endure the heartbreak for.
Well, that's my opinion anyway.
121. Melanie said the following at 12:48 AM on Dec 15:
Arhhh. I agree totally with this article. I came out of a dating relationship last year and it kind of ended badly. Since then, my best friend (a girl) has now become best friends with my ex. And I can say, it hurts .. ALOT! The pain of the relationship was enough as it was and for them now to just hang out 1 on 1 and form a band together, go shopping together, and all that just ripped me apart. and still does. I'm worried about my best friend and what might come out of it. I dont even know what to do, but I can see so many wrong things about their friendship. So many people have thought they are together, even randoms stopping them in the street talking about what a cute goodlooking couple they are. Its wrong. I've learnt from that, and I have no intimate relationships with guys. I dont want to make it difficult for when my future husband comes on the scene.
122. IMO said the following at 10:09 AM on Dec 15:
Melanie- I don't even know if this bears saying...but this "best-friend" of yours is no friend at all!
123. Melanie said the following at 12:14 AM on Dec 16:
Why do you say that?
Apart from the issue with my ex, shes the most amazing friend ive ever had. she was the only friend that supported me through the break and what not.always been there for me when i need her.
124. Melanie said the following at 9:28 AM on Dec 22:
I mean "break up" not "break"
125. Daniel B said the following at 8:12 AM on Dec 29:
"Why do you say that?
Apart from the issue with my ex, shes the most amazing friend ive ever had. "
Based on what you said in comment #121, saying "She's my best friend apart from the issue with my ex" is about like saying "Pearl Harbor was a great place to be on December 7th, 1941 apart from that issue with the bombs being dropped on it"
Doesn't matter how beautiful an island you've got if it's being bombed. And I also don't know if it matters how close your friend was if she basically betrayed you.
126. Melanie said the following at 11:28 AM on Jan 5:
She didnt betray me. Shes always still there for me, but shes now there for my ex as well. I have to deal with that. I'm not just going to through away a beautiful friendship cos shes best friends with my ex .. thats wrong.
I get where you're coming from, I do, but unfortunately I disagree.
127. Benjamin said the following at 7:03 PM on Jan 27:
Hey, I have a question. There is a girl that I am interested in. She seems to be a Godly woman, but I am unsure about some of her values. Do you think I should go out with her to really find out what her values are, or should I find them out by talking to her in Church or a group setting? I guess I was just concerned that I would go out someone, and be negatively influenced by her if some of her values are not in agreement with mine. Please pray for me.
Thanks
128. Kate (who is applying to law school!) said the following at 12:07 AM on Jan 28:
As a woman's college grad, maybe more time around men might have been a good thing. If you went off campus after too much time studying, you would begin to wonder what those tall, broad-shouldered things were. It also led to the development of my own personal style- convent girl chic. It's a stunning combination of vintagey prep, modest hems, riding boots and headbands.
Note: I am not knocking single-sex education. I would go back in a second and occasionally get college-sick.
129. B said the following at 9:23 AM on May 21:
It is crazy how an article can pretty much sum up the last 2 and 1/2 years of my life. I am turning 26 next week and have been single for the past 7 years. Sometimes I look at my singleness as a curse feeling like I am not worthy of anyone. The truth of the matter is, I know my heart is so soft that God is taking special care of it for me. I have a deep desire to be married some day and raise a family.
From failed short previous relationships with two awesome christian men (3 months each at best). I was scarred... didn't know what I did wrong.... afraid to put myself out and try again. So, I threw myself into my education. I focused soley on college and doing my best. I graduated with honors, something I could definitely be proud of, however, I graduated without having any close christian friends at all, I had alienated myself from everyone other than my family.
I found a local church with a young adults small group. I went one night and was impressed right away. The women were extremely nice, made me feel at home. By the time I left I had plans to hang out the next night with a guy and possibly a girl the next night. It was really wierd for me..... A guy got my phone number??? actually wanted to hang out with me?? I was so shocked. But it had been so long since I had hung out with anyone of my "own kind"... (my generation)... I was psyched.
I pride myself on being wise.... but boy did I fall right into this trap. The article pretty much explains it all to a "T". Mixed Signals all the way. He would say - "Hey, you want to get dinner tomorrow?" I would say "Sure". Had so much fun hanging out with him. How could I say no. I thought this was going in the direction leading towards courtship..... But apparently all he wanted to be was a surrogate boyfriend (his words exactly - I know lame right). He would even throw out lines like "This isn't a Date because if it was I would be asking your father's permission, but how does a February wedding sound?" (Mixed signals anyone? I took that as I am interested in you but lets see how our friendship goes before we take it a step further). As things progressed... And we went on our "Surrogate Dates" Unknown to me until a few days ago*** He began to share intimate things with me... whoa hold the phone... Dude... back up... you can't share that type of thing with a girl you just consider an aquaintance... it isn't fair.
Moral of the story...
By God's Grace and with his guidance.. Over that period of time even though it was hard because as it says in the article "Hope springs eternal, even though it shouldn't." I was able to put distance between us, giving me time to see what needed to be done. Allowing my head to lead me and not my heart.
It had been 6 months since I had seen or talked to him, and all the sudden he showed up out of the blue. It was so unexpected, I was sure I wouldn't see him again. So many emotions started to flood into my head... wondering if we would start the cycle all over again... would it change, would he finally want something more with me??? I had moved on in those months, it hadn't been easy but I had learned.... now I felt like I was taking the express elevator to the bottom floor... and quickly. So, I waited, would he call? Had things really changed? A month went by no call or text. All of the sudden I am flooded with emotion and anxiety... all I can do is pray... why? what am I feeling this for? Why do I feel the urge to call him? I know nothing has changed? This is going to be a painful experience Lord.... I don't want to show him my tears...... I can't let him see me cry... I can't let him see how he has hurt me... because that makes me feel weak. After much prayer.... and nudging from the Holy Spirit.... I started composing an e-mail.... explaining that I had a few questions for him... He knew the issue at hand... we had discussed this in previous months so this wouldn't be a surprise.
We ended up meeting face to face. In turn it started with a fair share of small talk to loosen up the evening... Then, I was able to get up the courage to confront the issue. Ask why... Letting him know it wasn't ok to develope and "emotionally intimate" relationship with me if he had no plans to follow through with anything more than a platonic friendship. That there were too many mixed signals sent my way which caused me to react in ways that I did..... causing me to open my heart.. and be vulnerable. At this point... he brought up his idea about being a "surrogate boyfriend" to all his single "girl" friends. I then explained to him why this is not a good idea... He was then able relate other situations in the past where he has had problems with this as well. I don't need or want a surrogate. I need a brother who is looking out for and guarding my heart.
I have found so much healing over the past 48 hours from this experience. I have faced my "demons" something that I let have such a close hold on me for so long.... FREEDOM!!
130. Jer said the following at 8:07 PM on Nov 8:
I've had this problem for my entire life...having felt more secure / trusting the opposite sex more than I did my own. I have however seen how this emotional attachment has gotten some of my relationships in trouble because I hold my pursuit back because I don't want to start a relationship, yet still try to treat them as wonderfully as possible.
Now comes my most immediate situation. This women has deeply encouraged me in the areas I have felt the least confident (my talents & passions) through Godly means (sharing "something I've read today that might help you"). We see each other often now because we are both extremely involved in the same things.
We flirt, joke around etc. Our Biblical "gender roles" mesh perfectly and I truly appreciate her personality. In fact I know my wife will have those same positive characteristics of that personality.
However, I am not very attracted to her...which I strongly believe should be a characteristic of a healthy relationship.
Furthermore, when we are hanging out in large groups or some one-on-one times, it's great. But when we are together with a group of friends, I find our relationship annoying...as if I don't want to feel the need to pay more attention to her than other people, or women.
Basically, I want to hold onto this "emotional" bond that you've talked about without wanting the commitment of a relationship.
Would it be beneficial for her and me to talk things out or would that lead us to try to convince ourselves that there is something more (push it into being)?