Self-Centered Streak in Cultural Singleness
by Steve Watters on 01/16/2007 at 10:29 AM
An article in today's New York Times says that for the first time, more American women are living without a husband. The rate of 51 percent of women living without a spouse is up from 35 percent in 1950.
We've spent a lot of time on Boundless addressing various factors behind the expanding growth of singleness. This article, however, carries with it a surprising tone of self-centeredness from almost every woman quoted.
While we don't know where these women are in their spiritual walk, the following excerpts seem to show a lack of appreciation for the sacrificial, other-centered model of Christian marriage:
"I don't plan to live with anyone else again until I am married," she said, "and I may opt to keep a place of my own even then."
"I have not sworn off marriage, but if I do wed, it will be to have a companion with whom I can travel and play parlor games in my old age."
"I'm in a place in my life where I'm comfortable,' said Ms. Crenshaw, who has two grown sons. "I can do what I want, when I want, with whom I want. I was a wife and a mother. I don’t feel like I need to do that again."
Similarly, Shelley Fidler, 59, a public policy adviser at a law firm, has sworn off marriage. She moved from rural Virginia to the vibrant Adams Morgan neighborhood of Washington, D.C., when her 30-year marriage ended. "The benefits were completely unforeseen for me," Ms. Fidler said, "the free time, the amount of time I get to spend with friends, the time I have alone, which I value tremendously, the flexibility in terms of work, travel and cultural events."
"A gentleman asked me to marry him and I said no," she recalled. "I told him, 'I'm just beginning to fly again, I'm just beginning to be me. Don't take that away.' "
"Marriage kind of aged me because there weren't options," Ms. Terris said. "There was only one way to go. Now I have choices. One night I slept on the other side of the bed, and I thought, I like this side."
Our readers often ask if some of the trends we observe are simply trends among non-believers that aren't true of Christians. Sometimes I believe this is true. I'm curious if the attitude above is only a secular culture trend or if our readers have also seen this kind of self-centeredness among believers.
1. John said the following at 10:42 AM on Jan 16:
The siren song of personal freedom and autonomy is tempting indeed. (Perhaps you've seen that commercial for arthritis medication that uses the old '60s song: "I'm free to do what I want any old time ...") For those of use who have never worn the golden handcuffs, it is, I suppose, a little daunting to face giving that up.
2. Becky F. said the following at 10:42 AM on Jan 16:
I have a Christian friend who is 32 and single. She would like to be married, but it is not so important to her that she is really seeking it out. She always half-joked that she wanted to marry a trucker so she wouldn't have to see him all the time, only on the weekends or something.
In light of that example, maybe the trend really encompasses American society as a whole, not just unbelievers.
3. Dee said the following at 10:50 AM on Jan 16:
It's a curious thing, and I may be completely off beam here, but I wonder if these attitudes are also present in a lot of our contemporary Christian teachings on singleness? It's funny, because I was just reading the notes to a talk on singleness that someone gave in another church, and something has just struck me as being very similar to the attitudes expressed above.
I think it's the idea that being single is just as good as being married (ie. both are equal "gifts"); that friends and "community" are an appropriate
substitute for a spouse and family of our own; that we should appreciate the "freedom" we have as singles; that we are perfectly "whole" on our own and don't need another person to complete us etc. etc.
Does this make any kind of sense?
4. Ed said the following at 11:15 AM on Jan 16:
I can see how some of those comments can be interpreted as self-centeredness, but people get married for all kinds of self-centered concerns as well.
I've never heard someone preparing for marriage say "Boy, I'd like to stay single, but out of selfless love for X, I'll marry her." No, I'd say the vast majority of people marry because they perceive (perhaps correctly) that their lives will be happier with a certain person than without. When they say "I love her", what they really mean is "I love how I feel around her." That's why you hear so many surprised stories of the sacrifices that marriage entails. Some make the transition from the self-focused reason for marrying to a true selfless love of spouse ... but many do not.
Boundless has talked about the many benefits of being married --companionship, children, sexual outlet, etc. In my opinion, all of these reasons could be selfish or selfless depending on the person involved.
It could be construed as a good thing for a person to be honest with himself, and say "I like a certain way of living my life and I'm not going to force a person into that mold", and forgo marriage for the sake of being able to live in a certain lifestyle (one that involves lots of travel and moving around, or lots of long hours at the office, etc).
Is it not better for someone who is an avowed "workaholic" to forgo marriage rather than doom a spouse to an empty house much of the time? For someone in a very dangerous occupation to forgo marriage rather than risking leaving a spouse suddenly a widow/widower? These could be very selfless reasons for forgoing marriage.
5. Vincenzo said the following at 11:42 AM on Jan 16:
I would have to agree with John. We do live in a culture that values personal freedom a great deal. While there is nothing wrong with having choices in life, it seems that the people in this article have the attitude that somehow a spouse rain on their freedom parade. Unfortunately, such an attitude is quite common among believers too. Some of the comments in the article sound a lot like comments that some Christian singles make: "I am content being single, it allows me to spend more time with God/Develop my spiritual gifts, etc."
6. John said the following at 11:52 AM on Jan 16:
On the other hand, is it really "self-centeredness"? There are plenty of ways one can be of service to one's family/church/community and be considerate of others, while enjoying one's freedom.
7. Heather said the following at 12:37 PM on Jan 16:
I don't think this article should be taken as much more than an example of the NYTimes' anti-marriage attitude, although it is significant that more women than ever are living without marriage. I haven't read the whole article, but the women mentioned in this excerpt are older divorcees who have already raised a family. Given that they have broken their wedding vows, it is hardly surprising that their views do not reflect a Christian understanding of marriage.
Furthermore, from a Christian perspective, it is better that these divorced women not seek remarriage, since that would be adultery. So really, I can't find too much to be surprised or dismayed about in this article.
But to answer Steve's question, yes, self-centered behavior is pretty much just as common among Christians as it is non-Christians...
8. Jessica said the following at 1:03 PM on Jan 16:
Becky, you posted:
I have a Christian friend who is 32 and single. She would like to be married, but it is not so important to her that she is really seeking it out. She always half-joked that she wanted to marry a trucker so she wouldn't have to see him all the time, only on the weekends or something.
In light of that example, maybe the trend really encompasses American society as a whole, not just unbelievers.
I think the trend that a lot of people fail to realize is happening (in and out of church) is not only the self-centeredness about marriage(which occurs among BOTH sexes in today's age, ESPECIALLY among men), is the complete lack of understanding about the purpose of marriage. If you don't understand how something works, then you will most likely wind up using it in a way which it was never intended.
In marriages today, both men and women misunderstand that marriage is not really about the fulfillment of their own personal happiness. I see the comments that Steve posted about women not wanting to get married or to delay getting married frequently among MEN as well.
I also have several questions for you as well. Would you have made the same observation if one of your male friends her age made that type of comment? If a man is to pursue a marriage relationship with a woman (Prov 18:22), how does "seeking" marriage as a woman free a man to pursue her?(Not that i'm advocating that a woman not do what God has called her to do in her individual life and just sit on her laurels).
9. Jake said the following at 1:27 PM on Jan 16:
I'm one of those who has sometimes accused Boundless of unfairly imputing trends from the secular world to Christians. In this case, I think there may be some validity to it. Actually, I think that what Christians do in cases like this one is follow trends from the secular world, but come up with Christian reasons as ex post facto justifications. For example, in delaying marriage they'll say things like "well, it's better to have a season of your life when you have time to be more missions-minded and participate in ministry." So they're doing what the world is doing, but they've convinced themselves they're good Christians for doing it.
As a 30-year-old man who'd like to be married, I'm often frustrated by the attitude of the church about marriage. Often married Christian friends will express dissapointingly worldly, cycnical, Al Bundy from "Married With Children"-esque sentiments when I bring the subject up, jokingly saying things like "you don't know how good you have it," etc. Just this past week someone told me that our church's last pastor used to joke "marriage is like a screen door in summertime: all the flies on the outside want to get in, and all the flies on the inside want to get out." And this is a conservative PCA minister, who co-authored a handbook about preparing for marriage. When it comes to encouraging young Christians to get married, with friends like these, who needs enemies?
10. Rosalie said the following at 2:10 PM on Jan 16:
Part of the problem with sinful man (as in human not just males) is that we all have a tendency to be self-centered regardless of our marriage status.
I agree with the point brought up before that people can and do marry (or do a million other things including have children) for self-centered reasons.
This being said it does seem reasonable that part of the reason for the trend of decreasing (or at the very least delaying) marriages is that people are quite wrapped up in their personal comfort and their personal freedom even more today than they were 30 years ago. It does seem likely that like many other trends of the world this has had a significant trend on some (not all) people within the body of Christ.
But we must be careful that we are taking about a trend and that we cannot project one of the factors possibly responsible for the trend on to individuals. It would be a huge mistake to label all Christian who are not married or marry later in life as self-centered or immature during their single years.
Remember that a Christian single does not have freedom in the same sense as the non-Christian does (although in reality being in Christ and free from the chains of sin and death they have more) to do what they like. All Christians, single or married and whether they live like it or not, are under the Lordship of Christ.
Maybe Christian singles (including myself) should regularly seek God about the danger of becoming more and more self-orientated when you don't have others depending on you, and involve your self in activities that put your focus on others.
I hope when I do marry that my motives include other-centered reasons (eg wanting to live and care for my future husband) as well as God-centered reasons (eg wanting to honor God with the marriage and serve Him better as part of a couple) but I will probably also not be completely free of self-centered reasons (eg wanting to be under the love and protection of a husband).
-Peace in Christ, Rosalie
11. smallerdemon said the following at 3:27 PM on Jan 16:
Well, I'll chime in as an atheist that's been married 10 years as of April, and together with the person for 15 years as of August. While each of our own states of happiness are important, it's certainly the case that the most important aspect is our happiness overall as a household. Certainly some things have been postponed (children) while one of us (me) decides about changing their long term views on having children. However, outside of taking up different sexual partners, I don't think either of us has necessarily impeded the other's desires to pursue life (we are monogamous -- we discussed not being so, but determined that neither of us are able to control our human nature's of jealousy enough for it to be a feasible lifestyle). Indeed, when my wife wanted to move across the country to pursue a PhD, I was all for it. Now she wants to move across the country again to start a business, (she finished the PhD, btw), and I am behind her all the way even though it certainly means a lot of work and new job hunting for me. I've never had large dreams of that manner, but I am searching for them, but I can't imagine pursuing them without my wife being my partner in the emotional ups and downs of such a pursuit.
12. Jethro said the following at 4:53 PM on Jan 16:
I'm with Ed. Christians are no less selfish than the rest of society, they just try harder to cover it up with talk of selfless love and such things.
This is not a criticism of Christians either, everyone is inherently selfish. Let's accept it and move on. The best you can hope for in a marriage is that your selfishness and your spouses selfishness compliment each other in such a way that you can stay married.
I disagree with Heather too, I don't see the NY Times as being anti-marriage. I'm curious Heather, why do you say this? Presumably these women exist and this story is real, how is reporting it anti-marriage? Wouldn't not reporting it be anti-truth?
13. DrLizW said the following at 5:03 PM on Jan 16:
Heather wrote:
"...Given that they have broken their wedding vows, it is hardly surprising that their views do not reflect a Christian understanding of marriage.
Furthermore, from a Christian perspective, it is better that these divorced women not seek remarriage, since that would be adultery..."
One problem with this conclusion! Unless the full NYT article contains more information, we do not know whether any specific divorced woman broke her marriage vow. If her husband left her for another woman, then it would not be adultery to remarry. Assuming that all divorced people (btw, I'm not divorced) have broken their wedding vows (or for that matter, assuming all married people have been faithful to their vows) is unfair.
14. Vincenzo said the following at 5:28 PM on Jan 16:
John wrote
"On the other hand, is it really "self-centeredness"? There are plenty of ways one can be of service to one's family/church/community and be considerate of others, while enjoying one's freedom."
Yes John, I would also agree with you on that point as well. My point is that the statements that the people interviewed in the article made have that same ring to them that some Christian singles make. Naturally, there are exceptions and their motivations may differ.
15. sarah said the following at 9:13 PM on Jan 16:
It seems to me like marriage in general is a whole lot more pain than joy. Why would singles willingly choose to give it up to be married? Marriage seems to me like the perils far outweigh any perks. Why would someone willingly trade their single state in for one that is very likely even more painful?
16. Kathleen said the following at 9:15 PM on Jan 16:
Kudos to all the posters who have pointed out that marriage isn't necessarily any more "selfless" than being single is, nor is being single any more "selfish" than marriage.
The fact is, people want to live their lives in a way that offers the most happiness and fulfillment. Is that "selfish"? If so, then those who want to marry for the personal benefits of companionship, sex, security, children, etc. are just as "selfish" as those who want to be single for the personal benefits of freedom, flexibility, personal growth, etc.
Of course, no one needs to be married in order to achieve the benefits of sex, companionship, children, etc; nor does marriage necessarily mean sacrificing freedom and flexibility. This just shows the feebleness of simple-minded thinking that assumes rigid motivations or benefits merely on the basis of marital/non-marital status.
People are free to organize their lives in the way that they find personally fulfilling. In increasing numbers, women (and men) are finding that marriage isn't necessary for personal fulfillment. Is this a cause for alarm? I can't imagine why it would be.
17. Laura Zimmerman said the following at 9:22 PM on Jan 16:
Yikes! I hope that I don't look at the world that way, and that it's not a trend in the church. I agree, believers are not immune to selfishness, but I pray that we wouldn't believe these lies about living for ourselves either. No, marriage is not something that we enter into for generally selfless reasons, but it should be something we enter into knowing that it might not always be easy or exactly what WE want ... but it is something that brings us into a new and different relationship with God, and the person we marry. When I marry, I don't want to do it simply for companionship, or tax breaks. I know that I won't continue to strive after my own desires over those of my spouse, (not that I won't fall short on that.) The idea of getting married, and then continuing to live as a single is crazy! When we enter into a covenant relationship with Christ, we are a new creation ... the old has gone and the new has come. The same should be said in marriage. I enter into a new covenant relationship with my spouse, and the old (single) me has gone, and the new has come...
18. Leah said the following at 9:38 PM on Jan 16:
Ed, I can't say I agree with the statement "When they say "I love her", what they really mean is "I love how I feel around her."".
Any couple who's been married for any length of time (or even those who haven't been married, like myself) will get into situations with their spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend where they do NOT love how they feel around that person. They feel worn out, tired, grumpy. But they still love that other person.
Granted, *some* people would get married for the reason you gave, but a "vast majority"? I think not.
19. xeres said the following at 11:09 PM on Jan 16:
Hey there everyone. Reading these are very interesting. May I say something? Being a discple of Christ, whether married or single, is difficult because we must constantly shift paradigms from self-centered to God-centered with the help of the Holy Spirit. Jesus gave up everything for us so that we humanity can come back to God and that God WILL be most gloriified through our redemption. I am not against having fullfilment. I'm just saying that personal fullfilment is becoming a God in the most part and most of us forget that it is the Lord who gave us the things that would be considered "personal fullfilment". We should enjoy the gifts but that joy and pleasure needs to derive from our gratitude to God, the giver and creator. I would be so hurt when people only spend time with me not because they want to like me or be near me but because what they can get from me. Another thing is that we need to stop treating our martial status as a spiritual/relational security blanket for our deep issues of control, co-dependency, shame and etc. Reading some of the responses makes me wonder if we have forgotten to include God. He is the source of love and righteousness. All the good things started from Him including marriage, family, passion, joy, talent and you name it.
20. Paul said the following at 4:44 AM on Jan 17:
Sarah,
Proverbs 18:22 says:
He who finds a wife finds what is good
and receives favour from the LORD. (NIV)
While your perception of marriage as more painful than joyful is probably justified based on your own experience of your parent's marriage (or even marriages, potentially) and/or the marriages of those around you, I pray you don't forget that God designed it, ordained it and declared it good. Which leads into a comment for...
Rosalie,
You described "wanting to be under the love and protection of a husband" as a self-centred reason for wanting to get married. Whilst the reason revolves around self, it is not essentially a bad desire. It is the underlying root and, even more so, the strength of that desire that determines its health. You mentioned other good and godly reasons for wanting marriage, these too are a good basis for desire, but for me the first and strongest argument for desiring marriage is that God says it is *good*. I’m not about to disagree with Him. :-) There are some for whom God has something even better (i.e. celibate singleness), as specified in 1 Corinthians 7:38, but the rest of 1 Corinthians 7 also indicates that marriage is good.
Take a different example. The desire to become and keep fit (a good thing), for example, should be foremost rooted in a desire to properly care for the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19-20), as we are instructed to do, but it is not evil to in addition desire the health and well-being benefits that naturally flow on. That desire should be partly based in the fact that when we’re healthy we can serve and work better for the Lord, but the fact that our own quality of life is improved is not a bad thing. If the strength of the desires is reversed, or the overall the desire reaches excessive or irrational levels (e.g. eating disorders) then that is obviously not healthy. As I think Josh Harris mentioned, it’s typically not *what* we desire that is evil, it is the *amount* we want it.
Similarly, in a more poignant example, it’s clear from the Gospels that Jesus didn’t want to die an excruciating death when praying in the Garden of Gethsemane (e.g. Luke 22:42), but out of love for us and a far greater and stronger desire to obey the Father’s will, he did.
This illustrates vividly that it is not wrong for us to have appropriate desires for good things here on earth, but they must be properly submitted to God’s will, which should be reflected in stronger desires in our life. When heavenly and earthy desires align, well and good; just don’t let the desire, especially the early motivations, get out of hand. When they don’t, it’s time to decide whether you really mean it when you call Jesus your Lord.
Paul
P.S. In the context of the larger discussion about the article, desires for things like “free time” “flexibility in terms of work” are examples of desires that are not necessarily bad, but in context of the quotes, it would seem likely that people are not desiring those things so that they can serve the Lord more effectively as he presents different opportunities. On the other hand, some of the other desires are self-centred *and* ungodly, and some the product of past pain, which is hard to overcome.
As a personal example, I desire and enjoy the fact that my new workplace has flexible work-time arrangements, but the main reason I do so is because it will allow me to better structure work around the ministry and missions that I undertake. Other more personal benefits like more time and ability to keep my house in order, easier scheduling of routine personal appointments and plain old relaxation time are also present, but not as strong. This is reflected in my priorities; if a ministry commitment means I should get off work early one day and work late on others to compensate, when I might otherwise be cleaning or relaxing, then I’ll favour the ministry and work late on the other days. (Though not, I might add, to the extent that my house becomes a pig sty.)
21. Heather said the following at 8:41 AM on Jan 17:
I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but since two commenters responded to my comment, I'll post this anyways.
First of all, I think that the latest post on this article, "Times Article Is Bad News," shows how the NYT skewed their data to reflect their preferred anti-marriage bias, in part by really stretching the definition of single. Also, the experts the Times quotes, such as Stephanie Coontz, are people who write books that are highly critical of marriage. What about some analysis of these questionable statistics from someone who has a more objective, or even pro-marriage, perspective?
Finally, as far as these women being divorced and not being free to remarry, as Dr Liz W pointed out, I have to disagree. Even if these women were the wronged spouse, whose husbands left them, they are still obligated to maintain the vows they have made before and to God. I know a lot of Christian denominations look the other way regarding divorce nowadays, but that is clearly not what Jesus taught about marriage, and it is not the example God has presented for us in the Bible. In the Old Testament, God was symbolically married to Israel, and even though Israel abandoned her vows to God, God did not divorce and put aside Israel. After the New Testament, we know that marriage is a reflection of the relationship between Christ and the Church. Just as Christ will never forsake his Church, despite our many sins and failings, Christian marriages should also be models of Christ's love and forgiveness, regardless of whether or not, in our eyes, our spouse deserves such love. Aren't all of us grateful that Christ's faithfulness to us is not dependent on wehther we are always perfectly faithful to him?
Although there are some marriages where separation or divorce is necessary to seek protection from an abusive spouse, those situations are truly the minority. And doesn't the fact that divorce rates among Christians are just as high as among non-Christians speak volumes about us, and our lack of obedience to Christ's teachings?
22. EmmaLee said the following at 9:33 AM on Jan 17:
To Heather
I respectfully disagree that a wronged spouse in a divorce must keep their marriage vows, in the case of adultery. In Matthew 5:31 Jesus says, "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery." He puts an exception in for those who were divorced due to marital unfaithfullness.
My sister got married at 19. Her husband abused her, cheated on her, left her, divorced her, and remarried. She was left divorced at 21. Is she to remain single and childless her whole life because this man sinned against her and God, broke their marriage vows, and turned his back on her?
I know this is not why the majority of divorces occur, but I believe that Jesus put the exception in for such cases as this. Otherwise the wronged spouse would be punished (being left alone and childless for their life) due to the sin of another.
23. Becky F. said the following at 11:05 AM on Jan 17:
Sarah, you wrote:
"It seems to me like marriage in general is a whole lot more pain than joy. Why would singles willingly choose to give it up to be married? Marriage seems to me like the perils far outweigh any perks. Why would someone willingly trade their single state in for one that is very likely even more painful?"
I have to say that from personal experience, I am happier being married than I was being single. I understand that if I had married a different person, or a bad person, I may have had a different view.
As a single person I watched other people have successful, loving relationships that led to marriage. I had my heart broken, and broke a few hearts when my "romantic" relationships ended. I was sick of breaking up. I think that if I hadn't met my husband and I was still single now, I probably would have just decided not to date for a long time, and I'd be pretty miserable watching my sisters have babies and quietly longing for one myself.
I think it will depend on the person when it comes to having more pain in marriage than in singleness, or vice versa. Sure, sometimes marriage requires hard work and stepping outside of comfort zones to apologize or talk about uncomfortable subjects. However, being married really is a great experience.
24. Kyu said the following at 3:16 PM on Jan 17:
I read a WSJ article about six years ago that had a group of high ranking female executives (all single, and in their mid-40s) who were longing for marriage/kids. After many years of extremely successful careers, these women were lamenting the fact that they 'missed out' on the personal side to their lives, as demonstrated by their coming home to empty apartments, not having children, etc. One woman (who was having difficulty getting pregnant) said she wished she wasn't so consumed with launching her career during her fertile years. They all seemed to imply that their powerful careers are not what it's cracked up to be. Granted they were passionate about career success during the pursuit, and they probably did enjoy the social freedom that singleness provided, but in the end, it wasn't fulfilling to make the six-figure salary and have a hundred people under them. [Just a different perspective on the same issue]
Besides, how long can you really enjoy sleeping on different sides of an empty bed anyway? :)
25. S said the following at 3:47 PM on Jan 17:
It seems to me that many of the commenters here did not go back to read the original NY Times article. The authors were very clear about how they computed their numbers:
"In a relatively small number of cases, the living arrangement is temporary, because the husbands are working out of town, are in the military or are institutionalized."
They then interviewed a very small, non-representative sample of women living alone, two of whom live in NYC, (which is not representative of the rest of the country; I know, as I live there) and two of whom were in their late 60s, and had been married for 30+ years.
These pull quotes are just that: tiny snippets from a few women talking about an overall trend. I don't see overwhelming selfishness here, I see, especially for the older women, enjoying a new, single season. The article ends this way:
"She said she was returning to college to get a master’s degree (her former husband “didn’t want me to do that because I was more educated than he was”), had taken photography classes and was auditioning for a play.
“Once you go through something you think will kill you and it doesn’t,” she said, “every day is like a present.”"
After 30 years in a stultifying marriage, she thought her divorce would kill her, but she has found peace on the other side. I see absolutely nothing to criticize here. I applaud her new found happiness!
26. Mike Theemling said the following at 4:39 PM on Jan 17:
Based on this and the comments written I'd like to respond.
I find it a bit hypocritical that when someone wishes to pursue good things like a higher education, having children, etc. there is almost no words of caution from the church by in large that someone may be "selfish" or is in danger of "making it an idol".
Yet when someone publically says they wish to pursue a spouse there are immediate warnings of "don't put it ahead of God", "let HIM find one for you", etc. I don't ever recall hearing from someone to wait upon the Lord and let Him find a college for me. On the contrary, it's expected that if I want college I need to work hard on my grades and actually apply to the school. Nor do I hear from most pastors that a couple shouldn't pursue other options if they want a child such as adoption or seeing a fertility doctor. I never hear, "If God wants you to have a child He will, so don't be selfish and force it".
There is a distinct difference between doing something which is "selfish" and something which is in your "self-interest". The former takes NO regard to how it will affect other people and is often pursued at the expense of something which should not be ignored. The latter aims at improving one's own quality of life which is not in and of itself evil at all. It simply checks these desires against proper principles and motives.
I would argue therefore that pursuing a godly marriage is not selfish at all. Marriage as we understand it today, because it is a mutual choice is not entirely a selfless act. There are "self-interest" motives involved: relief from loneliness, financial security, sexual gratification, children, etc. These things are not wrong to want as God Himself has designed marriage to be the way to fulfill these needs. But that alone doesn't make it selfish at all.
27. Chris Krycho said the following at 6:28 PM on Jan 17:
S - it's important to note, though, some of the other considerations and bizarre choices they had to make to make the situation come out this way. And not the first time, either. The Times in general, and this reporter in particular, has a habit of presenting a false picture about marriage with what might nearly be described as gleefulness about the changing states of American marriage. It's hard to think of any non-anti-marriage motivation for that kind of work and attitude.
To me, this is a reminder that we need to be discerning -- wise as serpents, and gentle as doves -- in our approach to media sources. It also tells me that we need to make sure we're not being manipulated when someone gives us "news" of the sort originally referred to in this post, which can happen all to easily.
28. Rosalie said the following at 6:23 AM on Jan 18:
Okay, I realize I’m slow at replying to this but in case people are still reading it I’ll comment.
Paul,
I agree with what you said. Most of our problems it not having the wrong desires but the wrong weighting on them or not having Christ on the thrown (over our desires).
That means I probably didn’t make my point very clear in the first place. It is not that the reasons (for marrying or doing other things such as pursuing higher education) are necessarily selfish or bad but they can often be centered / orientated around self (self-centered). As Christians we are called to live lives not only centered on self but mainly centered on God (part of which is being other human centered as well). This doesn’t mean that benefits to ourselves is not part of our motivation for doing things but that it shouldn’t always be the only motivation. I hope people can decipher what I am saying.
Mike Theemling,
I agree that people in the Church often forget to warn us that “good things” such as higher education can become idols if not kept in their right place. This doesn’t mean that Christians shouldn’t pursue these good things (including marriage) but that they should be conscious of checking that God is still number 1 in their lives from time to time.
-Peace in Christ, Rosalie.
29. Cheryl said the following at 6:48 AM on Jan 18:
Becky,
"being married is really a great experience". Thankyou for that! Keep up the good work and let your light and testimony shine for Christ. Rare are the people who do it right!! As a single person I hope you and your husband are mentoring others. I would love to spend time with you both!