Why I Will Homeschool (Part 2)
by Ted Slater on 12/14/2006 at 1:22 PM
Tim Challies stirred up some conversation a couple of days ago when he began a defense of his decision to have his children "educated through the public school system." In response, I began a similar series entitled "Why I Will Homeschool," in which I argue that the philosophy behind the systems and methodologies should be front and center when we make such an important decision for our children.
Tim has since published the second of his series, in which he provides his top two reasons:
I think one of the main reasons there is so much heated discussion is because of the way Tim framed his argument: Instead of merely stating why he is delegating primary responsibility of his children's education to the state, he instead begins by saying that he is specifically not homeschooling them. In other words, the title of his series implies that he is not sending his children to public schools because they are superior to other educational contexts, but he has chosen not to homeschool his children because of inherent flaws in that system.
Regardless of the incendiary title, the thing that concerns me about his position is that his motivation is not to educate his children in the traditional sense -- he doesn't mention teachers or philosophy or methodology or curriculum -- but to send them into an environment hostile to the Christian faith with the hope that they will be salt and light, and toughen them up against the allure of worldliness.
Perhaps it all boils down to our thoughts about the proper role of an educational system. I believe an educational system should give children the tools to think critically and the information on which to act with those tools, all within a worldview grounded in truth and love, the motivation being to better understand God and His creation, with the ultimate goal being to engage the Lord and humanity in ways that best honor the Lord and make the best use of the talents He's given us. OK, that was a pretty long and awkward sentence. Sorry about that.
On the other hand, I don't think teaching our children truth should take a back seat to requiring that they be young missionaries sent into a hostile environment, hoping that (like a vaccine helps us develop an immunity to the flu) they're able to build up a resistance to worldliness.
I'm all for missions; I spent about a year in the jungles of Mexico doing what some might label "missions work." I want my kids to have the same heart for reaching out to the unsaved, whether in the States or another country, and I'll encourage those opportunities. I also struggle to grow in discernment and try to be on guard against the creep of worldliness into my heart. My wife and I'll impress that on our kids as well, through "teachable moments" and the more formal homeschooling process. I think there are better ways for our kids to engage others with the gospel and build up their anti-worldliness muscles than immersing them in a system built on a foundation that says God is irrelevant.
I'm not wholesale against tax-funded schools. I spend 12 years in the public school system, and had some wonderful teachers and wonderful experiences. My sister teaches in the public school system, and has been a blessing to her students. What I'm saying is that we need to think long and hard about the development of those over whom the Lord has given us responsibility -- our children -- and how we can best bring them up in the knowledge of the Lord and His creation. Some choose homeschooling; others choose private or public schooling to accomplish that end. Homeschoolers need to not be so quick to condemn those who've chosen to delegate that responsibility to others, and non-homeschoolers need to stop ridiculing those who choose the counter-cultural route of managing that education themselves at home.
In the end, as I've mentioned, parents have been given the authority to direct the education of their children. I have no reason to doubt that Tim and his wife, though they've delegated that authority to others, are wonderful parents and will nevertheless be closely involved in their kids' education. I just wish he wouldn't have felt the need to diminish those who choose to homeschool in the process, and would have made more clear what he sees as the purpose of education and how his decision will help his kids achieve that end.
1. B. Minich said the following at 1:38 PM on Dec 14:
"I have no reason to doubt that Tim and his wife, though they've delegated that authority to others, are wonderful parents and will nevertheless be closely involved in their kids' education. I just wish he wouldn't have felt the need to diminish those who choose to homeschool in the process, and would have made more clear what he sees as the purpose of education and how his decision will help his kids achieve that end."
I agree with the latter part of this point: one thing I was left wondering is how Challies sees education -- he really doesn't say in that piece.
I do fail to see how his posts were inflammatory, though. While he had his criticisms of homeschoolers, I thought they were brought up in a humble manner.
As a homeschooled kid who is now starting to think about marriage, I can see how homeschooling made me more insular than I may otherwise have been (although that's also a function of my personality, and I can't blame homeschooling for that entirely). As I look forward to having kids, as it stands right now, I'm definately considering public schools, although I'm not sure I would want to send them to the schools I am local to right now -- what I know of the curriculum concerns me.
2. Becky F. said the following at 2:06 PM on Dec 14:
One thing that I think homeschooling "helped" me to be is less social outside of my family. Even though my family is flawed and can get on my nerves at times, I have always spent more time with those related to me over people I meet otherwise. Also, I have never been one to have more than one "best friend" at a time, so now that I'm married, my husband fills that spot and I don't have a really good girl-friend like I did throughout highschool and my first two years of college (which was a private university that started as a Catholic women's college and is now as secular as anywhere else, but that's another story). This is not to say that I don't greatly enjoy time I spend with non-relative friends, but I don't pursue those opportunities as much as say going to my parents' house to visit.
On the other hand, I am pretty sensitive to other people's moods and feelings and have generally been one to try to befriend the "underdog" and reach out to those who may sometimes fall through the cracks when I know they need someone to talk to. So, I may be more of a "home-body" but I'm definitely not anti-social. I'm just not one to go to parties and night clubs like many of the people I went to school with, not that I was really invited to many of those events in the first place.
3. A. LaLande said the following at 3:52 PM on Dec 14:
I think Ted's got it right. And he has the ability to clarify the issue too, which I seem to lack when it comes to issues I feel strongly about!
Tim Challies' comments WERE inflammatory, I'm afraid. Even though I am doing college work, I'm still involved with the local homeschool community. None of the parents would appreciate the way he explains his position.
But they wouldn't judge him harshly, either, if they knew him personally. For one thing, they've all been there -- pondering and studying out the best way to bring up their children. And for another, as one veteran homeschooler told me with a smile, reasons such as Mr. Challies uses are usually the last ditch arguments you hear before they "cave" and decide to homeschool after all!
But one thing is for sure: homeschooling isn't for everyone. I am glad it WAS for me, though! And for each of my children!
4. Leah said the following at 7:21 PM on Dec 14:
I have to say I'm disappointed with Ted arguing with the way Challies' phrased his opinion. (Ie. disagreeing with homeschooling rather than promoting public schooling). I don't see any problems with saying you find a particular sytem flawed, provided you give reasons and don't just run around saying "this is wrong, this is wrong, and this is wrong".
Also, in reference to A LaLande's comment "And for another, as one veteran homeschooler told me with a smile, reasons such as Mr. Challies uses are usually the last ditch arguments you hear before they "cave" and decide to homeschool after all!"- now _you_ are being the superior one, acting like "my system is the best way, and you can't escape it" (ie. in saying people come up with last ditch attempts before "caving".)
You are of the wrong attitude if you think homeschooling is something people should cave in to. I hope it's not necessary to qualify that statement.
5. Catherine Ann said the following at 10:28 PM on Dec 14:
As a victim of the public school system -- a clueless child who wanted desperatly to cling to God but was bruised and battered on account of my simple faith, who was told by a teacher not to talk about Jesus and instructed by another teacher to sit in a circle around candles in a dark room -- I have the very strong opinion that any parent that makes the "choice" to send their innocent babies into this lion's den is not really thinking about their children. I was lonely and scared and too ashamed to breathe a word. Pulling me out and homeschooling me -- after being emotionally and physically abused in public school -- was the best thing my parents could have ever done. The public school system is all about the indoctrination of children against God, against their parents, against anything remotely related to Christianity -- I know, I was one of those wretched little creatures. Anyone can believe whatever they like, but whether anyone likes it or not, children are going to be affected by a system that upholds all things pagan, and it may not be pretty.
6. A. LaLande said the following at 12:19 AM on Dec 15:
I am very sorry that I came across as superior. It is not at all what I intended and I humbly apologize for this. I meant "cave" in a purely humorous way and that the arguments Mr. Challies used have been (I think) masterfully dismissed by homeschool experts long before his blogs on the subject.
When an argument such as this comes up, with such polarized extremes, even though I have such strong opinions, I have a difficult time stating them in a manner that is graceful towards all.
So now that I've put my foot in my mouth, I guess I may as well explain my position fully. I have been an active observer of homeschool families my entire life - not hard to do, since I was around them constantly. I am the first to say that it is NOT a guarantor of success. (By success, I mean a child who grows up to be a sincere follower of Christ - I don't really count educational honors, as they won't mean a thing when a person stands before God after having rejected Him.)
But it is true, (and however narrow-minded I may sound I simply must say it), that I do believe with my whole heart that the best interest of children is found only under the constant guidance of godly and loving parents.
I've read the book of Proverbs backwards and forwards for many years and this serves to strengthen my belief on the subject, as of course do the passages in Deuteronomy, Titus, etc. As does my study of history, where I can't seem to find "public school" a common or Christian educational choice anywhere till relatively recently.
The public schools of today are godless. The society of peers, whether at public or Christian schools is harmful. If 'foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child' and the 'companion of fools will suffer harm' why do we subject our children to it at all? My love for these innocent children is such that I cannot bear to see them so early defiled and broken by the world.
I DO know good Christian people who grew up under that system and in that society. In this fallen world, I have to accept that there is no one-size-fits-all way to grow up unscathed by the deadly effects of sin. But having been born into a background of poverty, sin, and vice, to a mom who is a first-generation Christian (as is my dad, who adopted me after he married Mom - both were divorced), I can vouch personally for the truly incredible work God has done in my family's life. My childhood wasn't an easy one, but it was very blessed by God. The shadows of evil were often cast over me growing up, but I was protected through the influence of Christ as my parents, learning of Him themselves, led me (and my brothers) in the path that indeed is narrow.
So yes, I'm a radical and an extremist, but no, I'm not going to say homeschooling is superior. It's not. Only complete giving of oneself to God in every area of life is superior. I can't claim to have done this fully, but I hope to spend my life in the attempt. In choosing to homeschool, I believe that I am doing so as the best way to obey and serve God whenever it is that He blesses me with children. I don't think I'll ever have a graduate degree, or a career, or fame or fortune, but I've learned that those are empty and meaningless when compared to showing a child the way to Christ and how to live a life honoring to Him, which I believe is a parent's most sacred duty. And teaching them the three R's CAN be pretty fun!
7. Amelia said the following at 7:20 AM on Dec 15:
Contrary to Ted's thoughts that heated discussion has arisen due to Challies' framing of his argument, I think that the heated discussion is due to this issue being a naturally heated one.
While I'm here I feel that I must voice some of the offence and indignation that I felt while reading Catherine Ann's comment above. While you have obviously had a bad experience with a public school, this does not make all children in similar schools "wretched little creatures" who are being indoctrinated against God and their parents by nasty teachers who don't care for them at all. I found this comment to be very emotionally charged, and, while valid, not useful.
I am deeply intrigued by the homeschooling debate. After considering a thousand different ways I could continue to expand on this topic, I have decided that I couldn't possibly condense my thoughts adequately, so I might have to leave it for another day.
8. EmmaLee said the following at 7:27 AM on Dec 15:
I went through a similar experience as Catherine Ann, though I stayed in public school. I attended public school K-12, and was abused, mocked, and rejected by all my peers, as well as some teachers. I have been beaten up, went through spans where in no one in my grade would speak to me, and have been thoroughly verbally mocked, all because I professed Christianity unashamed and refused to give in to their worldly expectations (i.e. drinking parties, sneaking out, "fooling around").
I would never trade my public school experience for anything. I am who I am today because of it. My parents kept me firmly rooted in God and gave me the support I needed. I learned not to worry about what people will think of me. What matters is what God thinks of me. I learned to stand strong in what I believed. I also learned how to give unconditional love and forgiveness to those around me.
Most importantly, I was able to be an example of Christ to my peers. Some people scoff at the arguement of children being sent to public school as witnesses. I am so glad that I was one. My senior year of high school, two of the girls in my grade pulled me aside and said, Emma, what's up with you? We've made fun of you, been mean to you, you haven't gotten to hang out at parties like a normal kid. Yet you still smile every day, are nice to us, and you never gave in. Why?
Many people in my school watched me, the whole way through, waiting for me to snap, to fall, to give in. By God's grace I didn't, and they all saw that. God is our Rock. The people living in the world have no rock, nothing is stable for them. By always standing firm holding on to my Rock, I was a rock to them. Numerous classmates asked me what made me different, and I always shared my faith with them. Many people I went to school with I still pray for. I am glad God put me in their lives as an example of His love.
I intend to send my children to public school. I will pray every day that they do not have to endure the trials I faced, but if they do, that God will give them the strength that He gave me. If things become too difficult for them, I will switch to homeschooling, but I'm going to give them a chance to stand strong so that others may see Christ in them.
9. Elissa said the following at 11:31 AM on Dec 15:
Ted put into words what I felt about Mr. Challies post so much better than I did when I left a comment on his post. Instructing a child in truth is the primary reason for choosing an educational method, whether that method be homeschooling, public school, or private school. When God uses a public school situation to spread the gospel, praise God. But if that situation turns out to not be the best way to instruct in truth a particular child at a particular point in time, then the method of education would change because the primary motivation is the well-being of the child, not missions.
10. Aranel Alasse said the following at 11:34 AM on Dec 15:
Since people are sharing testimonies about their own experiences with public schools, I thought I'd share mine, as well, since it was *quite* different than that of some of the other comment-ers. (Not that I'm trying to put down their testimonies or experiences! It was very interesting to read them, and my heart goes out for some of you. My only intent is to caution everyone against generalizing what a public school is like.)
My public school experience was quite... nice.
1) In all of K-12, I only heard of one rumor that a teacher had behaved badly toward a student. (And it was just a rumor. I'm not even sure if it was true.) (Of course, I might not have known everything that was going on, because I also never heard of anyone doing drugs--which, once I was in college and really thought about it, seemed kind of improbable...)
2) When I was in Junior High, our science teacher tried to teach us evolution. As a class as a whole, we wouldn't stand for it. We argued and argued that evolution wasn't true. Our teacher told us we didn't have to believe it, but had to study it anyways (which I'm actually grateful for, because it would be awkward to go through life not knowing what the theory of evolution even was). Throughout the rest of my schooling, none of the teachers seemed to "preach" that evolution was true.
3) In 10th grade, we had a similar experience to Junior High. Our English teacher tried to teach us Greek/Roman mythology. Again, we (my class as a whole) wouldn't stand for it. But we had to learn it anyways (if we wanted to pass the tests). When we would argue, our teacher would say that we just needed to know the stories even if we didn't believe they were true. But the teacher didn't teach it to us as if it were true--just that it was something we needed to know. And it turns out I'm grateful for that too, because mythology is referenced a lot in our culture.
4) In choir, we regularly sang Christian music. The old slave-made gospel songs from way back when. The Hallelujah chorus. Lots of Christian music that was in Latin (although, with English translated for the musician to read so they knew what they were singing.) Christmas and Easter music (in English, even!). Of course, we sang our share of secular music too. But I never got the feeling that we weren't allowed to sing Christian stuff.
And this was a PUBLIC school! As I ponder all of this, I feel extremely blessed for my experience.
I recognize that the majority of the people in my community (and my county, as a whole) were either Christians or "Christian" (you know, just faking it), so I know that not every public school will be like this (and probably not many of them will be like it). But this post is just to say that it's possible for a public school to not be as anti-Christian/pro any-other-religion as some people might tend to think. (The evolution and mythology was never shoved down our throats as Truth.)
(On the down side, though, I would say that I was a little TOO sheltered, but maybe that's for another post at another time. The point was that I ended up sheltered in spite of the fact that I went to a public school.)
11. Catherine Ann said the following at 3:02 PM on Dec 15:
My comments were rather heated - but I don't regret them. I could write reems on my own experiences but I don't need to. There is a quote, from whom I cannot remember, but I hope it will be both valid and useful: Would the Hebrews have taken their children, put them on a Philistine bus and sent them to a Philistine school? I would add, and hope they come back in one piece? You don't have to personally spiritually and physically abuse your children, but how less to blame are you if you send them to someone else to do it for you? For those of you that had mild experiences - thank the Good Lord! For those or you that never had a teacher threaten to kill you or children that believed in Satanism try to teach you how to call up demons - praise Him! But don't - please don't test God.
"I am much afraid that schools will prove to be wide gates to hell unless they diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures, engraving them in the hearts of youth. I advise no one to place his child where the Scriptures do not reign paramount. Every institution in which men are not constantly occupied with the Word of God must become corrupt."
Martin Luther
12. Paul said the following at 7:01 PM on Dec 15:
With regard to the instructional aspect of this discussion, can anyone point to studies about the educational outcomes comparing the various educational modes? My own anecdotal experience with homeschooling is mildly unfavourable on results grounds. I’ll explain:
My family on my mother’s side have generally lived in Australia, although all but one of her siblings’ families have lived and worked overseas at some point. I spent five and a half years living in England and Switzerland with my family, whereas one of my cousins spent roughly a year and a half in Quebec in Canada.
As our family’s posting was known to be long-term, I went to a local public school in England (and prior to that in Australia) and an English-speaking, secular, international private school in Switzerland. My cousin and her siblings on the other hand weren’t able to attend public school in Quebec due to the language barrier, and for reasons which I’ve never asked about, their parents chose to homeschool. Their mother is a qualified teacher who had taught in public schools in Australia prior to this.
I completed my schooling in Switzerland and returned to Australia to attend university. My cousin’s family returned home after the end of their posting. Since my cousin and two of her siblings were very close to graduation, it was decided that they would continue with homeschooling, while a younger sibling attended a private Christian school and later a public school to finish his education. (Again, there were probably other factors in making these decisions that I am not aware of.)
My cousin and I attended the two largest universities in Brisbane, Australia, and in order to do so any high school qualifications have to be assessed and converted into a standard scale, as the majority university placements are based solely on academic results in Australia. The conversion attempts to compare different qualifications such as American SAT scores (which are what my cousin obtained), the UK’s A-Levels, France’s Baccalaureate, the International Baccalaureate (IB), which was my own qualification, and the results from local Australian schools.
Based on the conversion, we both achieved very high results, but not the same; her rank was a few points lower than my own. This would supposedly indicate a greater academic aptitude on my part. However our university results, now that we have both graduated, refute this quite starkly. My cousin is far more diligent, conscientious, and frankly, probably more intelligent than me. Her university results reflect this; out of a possible total of 224 marks across her entire degree, she obtained 223. I, on the other hand, only got 206 out of a possible 238.
While both forms of education prepared us to excel in our later educational careers, her results from homeschooling were not truly indicative of her educational and intellectual potential.
As I said at the start, this is anecdotal, but I would be interested to hear comparisons of the systems in terms of educational and assessment outcomes. As an example, what proportion of homeschoolers attend and graduate from college, as compared to the general population? I’m aware that, especially in the U.S., these statistics may be mildy skewed by the financial aspects of higher education, but surely there are some independent comparisons out there. I also recognise that educational outcomes are not the foremost concerns in this issue. And yet, whichever method we choose to educate our children, should we not expect a high quality education for them?
Then again, what is a high quality education?
13. c-n-n said the following at 11:12 PM on Dec 15:
i placed the story of my public school expirience on the first post, so i will not repeat, but i will reinterate some points.
God plans for us to be in community with one another. He gives us all different gifts for the strengthening of the body. This model manifested in my public education.
My personal expirience (i'm not at all saying that all expiriences are like mine) with public school is that i was introduced to many positive academic ventures that my parents could not have introduced me to in the same way. I learned about english and literature from two women who felt passionately about this subject. I learned about art and fine tuned my drawing skills from an art teacher who saw great potential in my work, and had the knowledge about how to place my work in competitions that resulted in awards and scholarships. I learned about power tools in the wood shop from a teacher who had expirience in that area. This is all knowledge that my parents could not have given me because they were not interested in these areas. I may have never known i had a talant for certain things if it had not been for my teachers, who were part of my community for edification and growth in knowledge. Now the Lord is using the training i had in public schools (primary, secondary, post secondary) to develop me into an architect in one of the nations leading graduate schools for architecture (also a public state school). Shortly i will be traveling to africa to use my skills with tools and hand construction to build a medical center. The positive and appropriate influence of these men and women in my life were invaluable. I'm not denying what my parents taught me at all, nor would I ever say that my parents "delegated the authority" of my education "to others." They were very involved, but they did allow the influence of others, which is a biblical process (i will emphasize that my parents, especially my dad, did not allow me to blindly accept their influences, but test the spirits, of course).
My parents, by chosing to send me to public school, afforded me the best opportunity availible by allowing others to speak into my life and teach me great academic knowledge. They knew that there were areas in education that others could provide better than they could. And that, i feel, takes maturity and humility to understand. It did not compromise my relationship with the Lord in the slightest. Infact, I believe these influences were positive and vital in the direction i now know i'm called to go. And it came from God's work in my life, through my public education.
14. Christine said the following at 9:00 AM on Dec 16:
Having grown up in public schools (with a mom employed by the same public school district) and having a BA in English from a state school, going to seminary was actually a major culture shock for me. Here, I am confronted every day with the drastic differences in upbringing and I'm torn as to what I will do if I have kids.
On one hand - I didn't get a good grasp of what it means to have a Biblical worldview. I didn't know the answers when my faith was questioned and I had almost no doctrine (though I was in church three times a week from birth).
On the other - many (not all) of the students here who have been homeschooled have no understanding of life outside of Christianity. I hear the way that they talk about the lost and I cringe. For some of them, their sheltered lives will (in my opinion and observations) hinder their ministries because they can't relate to people outside of their little bubble.
I'm not saying that either is necessarily better than the other. I think that both have ups and downs and that God uses both for His ultimate glory.
I know that for me, public school and state school have stretched me, solidified my faith and have given me a love for the lost that I most likely wouldn't have if I couldn't put faces of those I know on things like homosexuality, teen pregnancy, drug usage, etc.
15. Catherine Ann said the following at 1:34 PM on Dec 16:
It seems to me that many are missing the big picture. This is not a debate about two equal plains -- homeschooling vs publicschooling -- this a battle for children's minds and hearts. Again, those of you that were fortunate in your experiences, rejoice! God can use anything for His purposes and He can make smooth your path -- yet I don't think He means for us to hang out in bars or red-light districts just so we can see Him work there. And for those who would say public school cannot be compared to these places -- there are many who would beg to differ.
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful; but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night.
Psalm 1:1-2
These are the future generations we're discussing and we have a God-given opportunity to raise them as God would have them raised. But, sadly, perhaps we have been too well trained ourselves to question a nation-wide system that's turning out more illiterate, hopeless children every year.
16. Catherine Ann said the following at 3:26 PM on Dec 16:
Another few useful verses...
Deuteronomy 6:4-7
4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.
7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up."
17. Heidi said the following at 10:24 PM on Dec 16:
For those asking for statistics about public school students versus homeschoolers, here is a link to a study that was done on that subject.
http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v7n8/
18. Leah said the following at 10:49 PM on Dec 16:
Catherine Ann- I'm sorry you had such a tough time in the public schooling system. I'm not familiar with the American system as I'm Australian, however I think it can't be too far removed from our way of doing things. (American life infiltrates Australian media so much I'm fairly sure I have a pretty good idea of what it involves!)
However, to say "any parent that makes the "choice" to send their innocent babies into this lion's den is not really thinking about their children." is really very unfair to the millions upon millions of parents who do make this decision. Could so many people be wrong? Some teachers are better than others. Some schools are better than others. You obviously had some heartless, cruel teachers. However, I came across teachers who, while they didn't agree with my belief, were very willing for me to hold that belief. My mother, who is very involved in my old primary school (Religious Ed co-ordinator, Book club co-ordinator, one-day-a-week preschool teacher) is also one of the most respected volunteers at the school-- and, to quote the Christmas card she got from the non-Christian Principal last week, he is "very grateful for the contribution you have to the mental and spiritual growth of our students".
"Public school" does not = "lion's den". It's like someone saying they fell off horses continually when learning how to ride, therefore you must be inconsiderate and thoughtless if you were to let your children learn how to ride. While it was the wrong choice for you, this does not make other parents wrong for choosing it for their children. Was my mother giving me no consideration when she enrolled me in the public schooling system? I had a wonderful time of it and intend on doing the same for my children.
19. Jacob said the following at 10:54 PM on Dec 16:
The first "public" school system was established by the "Old Deluder Satan Act" of 1647 by a bunch of Calvinists who thought that teaching children to read so they could study the bible would help keep them from temptation.
Read it here: http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/deluder.html
Note, I was home schooled, so don't take it as a slam against homeschooling.
Also, while I haven't read through all of Challies' second part, the first part was written in good taste and I think that we're making mountains out of mole-hills like some people were doing with Mark Driscoll (sorry Ted!). I think Challies' blog, if you've read his posts for any length of time, has a lot of humility and wisdom.
20. Leah said the following at 10:55 PM on Dec 16:
A LaLande: thankyou very much for your explanation. I can accept different viewpoints, however there's one thing you said that I find difficult to simply accept: "(I sincerely believe) the best interest of children is found only under the constant guidance of godly and loving parents."
That's ok for you to believe that, but the fact remains, these children will one day enter the wide world. They will not have continual guidance from their parents any longer. How will they stand without their parents to hold them up? I can't help but think they'd be somewhat naive about society or social situations (and I mean real society, not the cliches you find on TV), unless their parents had gone to great lengths to have them participate in extracurricular activities with other children outside school.
Yes, the best interest of children is found under the guidance of godly and loving parents. But should it really be constant, 24/7 guidance?
21. Catherine Ann"s Father said the following at 11:05 AM on Dec 17:
In regards to Government, I mean Public Schooling verses Home Schooling.
I quote...
"I am much afraid that schools will prove to be wide gates to hell unless they diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures, engraving them in the hearts of youth. I advise no one to place his child where the Scriptures do not reign paramount. Every institution in which men are not constantly occupied with the Word of God must become corrupt."
Martin Luther.
My quote...
"Hear, Hear..."
22. Erin said the following at 1:50 PM on Dec 17:
This is quite the interesting discussion, and I won't claim to know much about it at all outside my own experience. I was in public schools for K-12, then I went to a private Christian university for college, and am now getting my master's from a state university. To address the idea of public schools being "lion's dens," I don't deny that there can be harsh experiences to be had within the walls of the public school, but as others have attested, there can also be very wonderful experiences. I was fortunate enough to find friends who were believers, and some of my fondest memories in high school involve our lunchtime debates about a variety of topics (we were Baptist, Catholic, Assembly of God, Methodist, and Episcopalian, among others) that helped me explore and defend my own beliefs more than anything else did.
Furthermore, the world itself can be said to be something of a "lion's den," and as Leah pointed out, parents will only be around to protect and guide their children for so long before they grow up and have to face the world on their own. Going to a public school gave me no delusions about what it would be like to be in a secular work environment, and while I relished the time I spent at my Christian college, the "world" I encountered there was a much more sheltered and idyllic world than I now face daily, and I am thankful to God for having had the benefit of being on two sides of the educational spectrum.
23. Leah said the following at 12:38 AM on Dec 18:
To Catherine Ann and her father: Martin Luther's words are not gospel. He was flawed too.
24. Catherine Ann said the following at 10:22 AM on Dec 18:
Actually, my father hadn't realized that I had already written that quote -- we think alike ... but I think the books of Psalms and Deuteronomy are ... I've yet to see anyone quoting Scripture in favor of Public Schools. I'm getting rather bored with this debate though so I'm officially signing off. Hopefully I've reached a few indecisive's out there. :)
25. Samuel Jones said the following at 10:41 AM on Dec 18:
One thing that well-educated parents aiming to homeschool often forget in this debate, is that they are often well educated and thereby equipped to teach their children precisely because of their involvement with the established institutions. In that sense, they are standing on the shoulders of educational institutions in order to educate their children at home. This is a great privaledge! This is a privaledge not everyone has.
26. Sara said the following at 2:27 PM on Dec 18:
The thing to ask is can we take our education with us when we die? No. Our educational successes and attributes are the same as possessions. They will rust and fade away. So the argument about not wanting your kids to be salt and light to the world for the sake of their education seems fruitless to me. I have met many young adults who were homeschooled and have seen them try to navigate the real world after spending their entire education surrounded by only Christians . Are they incredibly smart and well-educated...yes. Socially inept...ABSOLUTELY! When it came time for our college-age ministry to seek out unbelievers and share the Gospel with them it became very clear to me the pitfalls of homeschooling your children. They could not relate to anyone who had grown up in a secular public schooled household. It cemented my decision that when I have children...they will attend public school.
27. Simon said the following at 2:54 PM on Dec 18:
Sara, it sounds like the people you described had social ineptitude due to growing up in a sheltered Christian bubble, if they were surrounded by Christians. I think that is the problem, and not necessarily the fact that they were homeschooled. Perhaps their parents had in mind to shelter them from "the evils of the world" and decided that homeschooling would be a good way to facilite it.
On the other hand, there are arguments and evidence for socialization in a homeschooled environment:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/washingtontimes/familytimes/199706100.asp
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-294.html
It's a matter of what sort of upbringing the parents decide to expose their kids to. If you're concerned about your kids' social skills, I think you would homeschool them differently than parents who want to keep them in a Christian bubble.
28. Simon said the following at 3:15 PM on Dec 18:
Samuel, by the same logic, the people who made such great "established systems" were homeschooled in the days before there were institutional schools, and thus stood on the "shoulders" of homeschooling.
29. A. LaLande said the following at 5:57 PM on Dec 18:
Leah, the only way I can be so sincere about all of this is because I personally have experienced it. My parents didn't watch me with eagle eyes 24/7. The point is that with careful guidance they brought me up to the place where I no longer required their care, gradually letting go until I could stand--not alone, but with Christ as my sole help. But that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate their advice still! Something that I think a lot of kids are brought up to believe is that independence is their goal. Well, I don't believe that God created us to be independent creatures, but rather interdependent. So even though I'm some years past eighteen, I don't feel like I have to do it all myself. For the rest of my life I will have a strong and caring family there for me when I need them.
As for the socialization MYTH!!! So much has already been said on the subject by greater minds than I that again, I will merely plead my own experience. Not having spent my formative years constantly surrounded by children my own age, I now have the ability to communicate comfortably with people of all ages instead of just my peers. This is another blessing in my life, because as a young girl, I was painfully shy. But I was never forced into social interaction and in time God helped me to overcome my timidity.
I love the fact that God uses people all the time who the "real world" would look down on. His foolishness is greater than man's wisdom. I only pray that He will continue to guide me as I try to please Him in every area of my life.
~April
30. Leah said the following at 10:49 PM on Dec 26:
April, like you, I was painfully shy when I was young. And had I not been forced into the social setting that came with school, I probably wouldn't have gotten over it by the time I was 13 (which is when I began to come through).
Also, simply because the socialisation thing wasn't true for you, does not make it a myth. Sara above has witnessed the socialisation pitfalls that *can* (not necessarily *do*) come with homeschooling. I'm also able to interact with people of different ages very successfully. Most of my closest friends are older than me.