Unsetting Boundaries by Motte Brown on 12/08/2006 at 2:15 PM

Suzanne has a great piece this week on Boundless questioning the Townsend and Cloud phenomena on boundaries. Here's an excerpt:

"Boundaries for Early Christians" would not have been a bestseller. In fact, the early church seems to have had some significant boundary issues. Acts describes people living in community, sharing all they had, selling their stuff to give to the poor. Believers today find this concept very uncomfortable. We cherish independence and privacy. We worry about being taken advantage of or losing something we deserve. We fear being manipulated or abused by another person.

I love it. It reminds me of something an assistant pastor said during a class on tithing years ago, "keep only what you need, give everything else away." The one word I would add to that statement is "sacrificially." Too often, we take too many liberties with the word "need." I think giving our time and money should hurt a little.

Unsetting Boundaries by Motte Brown on 12/08/2006 at 2:15 PM

Suzanne has a great piece this week on Boundless questioning the Townsend and Cloud phenomena on boundaries. Here's an excerpt:

"Boundaries for Early Christians" would not have been a bestseller. In fact, the early church seems to have had some significant boundary issues. Acts describes people living in community, sharing all they had, selling their stuff to give to the poor. Believers today find this concept very uncomfortable. We cherish independence and privacy. We worry about being taken advantage of or losing something we deserve. We fear being manipulated or abused by another person.

I love it. It reminds me of something an assistant pastor said during a class on tithing years ago, "keep only what you need, give everything else away." The one word I would add to that statement is "sacrificially." Too often, we take too many liberties with the word "need." I think giving our time and money should hurt a little.

Comments

[1. Bethany said the following at 6:03 PM on Dec 8:]

1

I was so excited to read this article because it is something that I have thought for a while but popular Christian culture is definitely against it at the moment.

Jesus sure didn't seem to set many "personal boundaries". Of course, he was a very special man but we are also called to emulate his ministry.

Thank you for the article! It was very encouraging to me.

[2. Katy said the following at 6:47 PM on Dec 8:]

2

It is a tradgedy when people set boundaries with God. There is no such thing as "my time." It is all God's time and we must use it to fulfill His will. This sometimes means setting boundaries with individuals who are asking for endless amounts of attention. I personally have to have some boundaries. I am a full time student, I work weekends, I lead a campus Bible study, and I have lots of relationships to keep up on (including my relationship with God.) There are people in my life who would like to "hang out" more, but sometimes I have to say no or I would be too drained to fulfill my other responsibilities.

[3. Ame said the following at 8:10 PM on Dec 8:]

3

i absolutely agree with suzanne.

the boundaries book, though, significantly changed my life. my parents had abused me in every way possible, and i didn't know that i had the freedom to say, "no more. you cannot abuse me anymore." i didn't know that i had the freedom not to let them into my home. i didn't know that i had the freedom not to let others into me in ways that hurt me.

boundaries, for people like me, is critical to survival. learning internal and external boundaries has saved my life. i eventually learned that i didn't have to let my ex husband continue to abuse me in his chosen ways, and i learned how to stand up to him and say, "no more." he didn't like it, chose to keep his lifestyle and divorce me. and i learned that that is okay, and not only okay, that is good because i protected myself and my children.

however, i am keenly aware of the unavailability and hoarding of people, especially within the christian world. they seem to say, "don't touch me at all." i don't get it. my neighbor calls at night and needs medicine for her son who is sick. i have the medicine, and run it across the street to her. she's shocked that i would do such a thing. i'm shocked that someone else wouldn't. but then again, people don't for me, either.

i'm deeply sad that it is this philosophy that has been abused in such a way that people no longer believe they are responsible to others and for others in healthy ways. my daughters and i have been recipients of this within the church, and it has been very painful and, honestly, shocking. i would not have believed you had you told me how cruel the church is to those going thru divorce and single mom's. they have this check list of "things" they will "do" for you, but they will not invest their lives in yours or your childrens' on any level. my pastor was delighted my divorce was "biblical" according to his standards, but thought my request for much needed help during a desperate time for me was completely out-of-line.

i want to commend suzanne on the highest level. the investment she is making with have infinite value, most of which she will never know until she stands before Jesus and all the straw has burned away, and she opens her eyes and Jesus shows her how beautiful and holy her sacrifice and love bloomed and polinated over and over again.

i'm curious if anyone has contacted Cloud and Townsend and asked them if this is, in fact, part of their goal of writing their books?

[4. Dan Daniels said the following at 4:45 AM on Dec 12:]

4

I don't think giving should hurt a little in order to be tithing or giving above the tithe in the Biblical sense. Tithing is an act of worship as well as an act of obedience. You do not go to church until it hurts. A tithe in the Biblical sense is the first tenth which represents the whole.

[5. Danielle said the following at 8:38 PM on Dec 14:]

5

I don't think that giving monetary-wise should hurt either, but some people forget that while they may have given that ten percent, the other ninety belongs to God as well. We should be good stewarts in 100 percent of what He has given us, for what we sow bountifully we will also reap bountifully (2 Cor. 9:6). And while it shouldn't be grudgingly (2 Cor. 9:7...sorry, I wish I knew how to hyperlink) it sometimes takes that 'sacrifice of praise'.

And while I don't go to church until it hurts, I have been guilty of having a bad attitude and feeling that it 'hurts to go to church'. In other words, grudgingly attending a Sunday night or midweek service because the flesh wants to 'veg out' at home. But I always leave so much more blessed than when I entered, and I ask for God's forgiveness and mercy for my poor attitude. Thankfully, through prayer, those episodes have occured less this year and God has given me a desire to be less concerned about myself, use more of my time to help others, and to be a better witness for Him in all that I do (attitude and all).

Yes, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. But praise God that His strength is made perfect in our weakness!

[1. Bethany said the following at 6:03 PM on Dec 8:]

1

I was so excited to read this article because it is something that I have thought for a while but popular Christian culture is definitely against it at the moment.

Jesus sure didn't seem to set many "personal boundaries". Of course, he was a very special man but we are also called to emulate his ministry.

Thank you for the article! It was very encouraging to me.

[2. Katy said the following at 6:47 PM on Dec 8:]

2

It is a tradgedy when people set boundaries with God. There is no such thing as "my time." It is all God's time and we must use it to fulfill His will. This sometimes means setting boundaries with individuals who are asking for endless amounts of attention. I personally have to have some boundaries. I am a full time student, I work weekends, I lead a campus Bible study, and I have lots of relationships to keep up on (including my relationship with God.) There are people in my life who would like to "hang out" more, but sometimes I have to say no or I would be too drained to fulfill my other responsibilities.

[3. Ame said the following at 8:10 PM on Dec 8:]

3

i absolutely agree with suzanne.

the boundaries book, though, significantly changed my life. my parents had abused me in every way possible, and i didn't know that i had the freedom to say, "no more. you cannot abuse me anymore." i didn't know that i had the freedom not to let them into my home. i didn't know that i had the freedom not to let others into me in ways that hurt me.

boundaries, for people like me, is critical to survival. learning internal and external boundaries has saved my life. i eventually learned that i didn't have to let my ex husband continue to abuse me in his chosen ways, and i learned how to stand up to him and say, "no more." he didn't like it, chose to keep his lifestyle and divorce me. and i learned that that is okay, and not only okay, that is good because i protected myself and my children.

however, i am keenly aware of the unavailability and hoarding of people, especially within the christian world. they seem to say, "don't touch me at all." i don't get it. my neighbor calls at night and needs medicine for her son who is sick. i have the medicine, and run it across the street to her. she's shocked that i would do such a thing. i'm shocked that someone else wouldn't. but then again, people don't for me, either.

i'm deeply sad that it is this philosophy that has been abused in such a way that people no longer believe they are responsible to others and for others in healthy ways. my daughters and i have been recipients of this within the church, and it has been very painful and, honestly, shocking. i would not have believed you had you told me how cruel the church is to those going thru divorce and single mom's. they have this check list of "things" they will "do" for you, but they will not invest their lives in yours or your childrens' on any level. my pastor was delighted my divorce was "biblical" according to his standards, but thought my request for much needed help during a desperate time for me was completely out-of-line.

i want to commend suzanne on the highest level. the investment she is making with have infinite value, most of which she will never know until she stands before Jesus and all the straw has burned away, and she opens her eyes and Jesus shows her how beautiful and holy her sacrifice and love bloomed and polinated over and over again.

i'm curious if anyone has contacted Cloud and Townsend and asked them if this is, in fact, part of their goal of writing their books?

[4. Dan Daniels said the following at 4:45 AM on Dec 12:]

4

I don't think giving should hurt a little in order to be tithing or giving above the tithe in the Biblical sense. Tithing is an act of worship as well as an act of obedience. You do not go to church until it hurts. A tithe in the Biblical sense is the first tenth which represents the whole.

[5. Danielle said the following at 8:38 PM on Dec 14:]

5

I don't think that giving monetary-wise should hurt either, but some people forget that while they may have given that ten percent, the other ninety belongs to God as well. We should be good stewarts in 100 percent of what He has given us, for what we sow bountifully we will also reap bountifully (2 Cor. 9:6). And while it shouldn't be grudgingly (2 Cor. 9:7...sorry, I wish I knew how to hyperlink) it sometimes takes that 'sacrifice of praise'.

And while I don't go to church until it hurts, I have been guilty of having a bad attitude and feeling that it 'hurts to go to church'. In other words, grudgingly attending a Sunday night or midweek service because the flesh wants to 'veg out' at home. But I always leave so much more blessed than when I entered, and I ask for God's forgiveness and mercy for my poor attitude. Thankfully, through prayer, those episodes have occured less this year and God has given me a desire to be less concerned about myself, use more of my time to help others, and to be a better witness for Him in all that I do (attitude and all).

Yes, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. But praise God that His strength is made perfect in our weakness!