What You're Saying
by Motte Brown on 11/11/2006 at 4:00 AM
Why is it that when a Christian messes up we respond with the love of Christ, yet when sinners mess up we talk about the quick trip to hell they'll be receiving? Jesus always did the opposite -- he held Christians to a higher level and provided grace to sinners. Wouldn't it be great if we began to show God's grace to all sinners, regardless of what they've done? Wouldn't it be great if we could all remember the "Christian" is supposed to mean "like Christ" and that to uphold our position as Christians we began actually loving people, rather than judging them?
If we, as Christians, begin responding to our friends, neighbors and sinful politicians with the same love so many are showing Ted Haggard right now the world will truly be changed.
Donny
Well, it looks like South Dakota passed its marriage amendment, but not the prohibition on abortion. I have a feeling that if states like South Dakota can't pass limitations on abortion, we'll never be able to limit it. Although, it was a pretty close race. Maybe if those in support of abortion stop having children, and those in opposition of abortion be fruitful and multiply, the morals of the nation will be able to change with population shifts.
Becky
Ted: Recipient of Church Discipline
You've got to be kidding. Ted Slater underwent church discipline for dating someone in spite of her father's objections? Unless some grave moral sin is involved it's a matter between the father and Mr. Slater, not a matter for the church.
There is a time and place for church discipline. Imposing church discipline for breaking rigid, legalistic man-made rules about dating is an abuse of the discipline process. I would counsel Mr. Slater to find a new church which has a better balance of grace and law.
Russ
1. Maggi said the following at 12:18 PM on Nov 16:
I believe our church community as a whole and our definition of Christianity has changed. If the Church (the body of Christ) isn't going to hold her own members accountable, who will? God has given us the Church and elders to do exactly that(Heb 13:17). Too often the Church doesn't act as body.
Ted Slater purposely and willfully disobeyed authority over him. By asking the father's permission, he acknowledged the father's authority in that situation. (That authority is not a manmade rule, that is God's provision and purpose of family.) Ted knew this and knew he was sinning. He caused another person to stumble. He admits he was dating in secret; it was a secret because it was wrong--it was sin. Yes, the punishment did seem a bit strong to me. But that's only my opinion, and obviously Ted saw the benefit. He responded with grace and repentance, not a hardened heart.
I wonder, how many of us would benefit from having people around us who would hold us to that kind of accountability? I know my own conscience isn't always enough to keep me doing what is right. When people are in leadership, they have a higher standard they are accountable to (James 3:1).
Where is the line between disobedience and grave moral sin? Is there such a line? Does sin end with 'small' disobedience? I say no, it grows (James 3:15).
An aside thought, Adam and Eve's sin was 'only' eating fruit that was not allowed, which could be likened to eating cookies before dinner. They didn't commit murder or bestiality. They just disobeyed, a 'little' sin. But the consequences were huge.
In Ted Haggard's situation, I'm sure he didn't purpose to go out and find a male prostitute. Sin starts small, in the gray areas, and when it's no big deal, we become inured to the voice of the Holy Spirit and our consciences are hardened, and God lets satan have his way until we choose to hear His voice (1 Corinthians 5:5).
Ted Slater's story is an example of how we should respond when God uses someone to correct us.