Just Holding Hands? by Ted Slater on 10/11/2006 at 2:00 PM

When I read Motte's recent post about holding hands, two things came to mind.

First, a study I heard about earlier this year reports that holding a loved one's hand has a quantifiable, measurable effect on people:

The women received significantly more relief from their husbands' touch than from a stranger's, and those in particularly close marriages were most deeply comforted by their husbands' hands, the study found.

That tells me that holding hands is not insignificant, that you can't say, "Oh, we're just holding hands." Holding hands means something.

The second thing that came to mind was my decision not to hold my last girlfriend's hand until engagement, should that take place. She and I both knew the truth that Motte spoke of -- that holding hands "send[s] the message to a sister that reads, 'You're mine.'" The thing is, Ashleigh and I were courting -- merely exploring whether or not it was the Lord's will for us to be married -- and so she was in fact not yet "mine." And so I felt it inappropriate to communicate that to her by holding her hand.

Another reason for staying hands-off during our courtship: I knew myself well enough that if we started holding hands, it'd be easier to move up to extended hugs, caresses, kissing, and so on. I didn't trust myself, you could say, to get on that escalator.

My discovery: It's OK to not hold hands when you're in a relationship.

The second time we ever held hands (the first was when her father led a mealtime prayer and had everyone around the table hold hands) was at the beach under a full moon, when Ashleigh agreed to marry me. Our first kiss was a mere four months later, after she fulfilled her agreement at the altar.

Just Holding Hands? by Ted Slater on 10/11/2006 at 2:00 PM

When I read Motte's recent post about holding hands, two things came to mind.

First, a study I heard about earlier this year reports that holding a loved one's hand has a quantifiable, measurable effect on people:

The women received significantly more relief from their husbands' touch than from a stranger's, and those in particularly close marriages were most deeply comforted by their husbands' hands, the study found.

That tells me that holding hands is not insignificant, that you can't say, "Oh, we're just holding hands." Holding hands means something.

The second thing that came to mind was my decision not to hold my last girlfriend's hand until engagement, should that take place. She and I both knew the truth that Motte spoke of -- that holding hands "send[s] the message to a sister that reads, 'You're mine.'" The thing is, Ashleigh and I were courting -- merely exploring whether or not it was the Lord's will for us to be married -- and so she was in fact not yet "mine." And so I felt it inappropriate to communicate that to her by holding her hand.

Another reason for staying hands-off during our courtship: I knew myself well enough that if we started holding hands, it'd be easier to move up to extended hugs, caresses, kissing, and so on. I didn't trust myself, you could say, to get on that escalator.

My discovery: It's OK to not hold hands when you're in a relationship.

The second time we ever held hands (the first was when her father led a mealtime prayer and had everyone around the table hold hands) was at the beach under a full moon, when Ashleigh agreed to marry me. Our first kiss was a mere four months later, after she fulfilled her agreement at the altar.

Comments

[1. Ame said the following at 2:04 AM on Nov 24:]

1

reading thru the archives ...

quite a few years ago a friend divorced - an ugly, public divorce where her husband and her best friend were "caught" and eventually got married - 7 children between them.

she began dating right away after the decree was final. first i heard, "we just held hands." then, "it was just a good-night kiss." then, "we were laying on the couch together." etc

as i was married at the time, i spent a lot of time thinking about where would i draw "the line" if i were ever single again; what advice would i give to a single woman? and i quickly moved down the ladder and realized that i would not even be able to hold hands because in marriage all forms of affection become a part of sex, and holding hands IS very meaningful for me.

i was not planning on being divorced. i had no idea my ex would dive into such a destructive path and cause me to be divorced.

but, i am VERY thankful i thought that through THEN. i made a lot of choices as she went thru choices she made that have proven valuable to me now.

i agree absolutely - holding hands is a very intimate expression and should be "saved" until at least a couple has committed to marry. AND, it is a decision that people should make loooong before any opportunity presents itself.

[2. bianca marie said the following at 10:47 AM on Nov 24:]

2

on Ame's comment(s):
"holding hands is a very intimate expression and should be "saved" until at least a couple has committed to marry." --- i dont agree that it applies to EVERY COUPLE; different couples have different weaknesses and strengths.
like you said, "it is a decision that people should make loooong before any opportunity presents itself." TRUE! COMMUNICATION is key... these are things, like i said, apply differenly to every couple and need to be brought up together and brought to prayer very early in the "courtship."
I agree that this works well for some, but not for all.
/b/

[3. manda said the following at 10:47 PM on Nov 25:]

3

I agoree with bianca -- let's not be legalistic here. Holding hands is not wrong or defrauding or an escalator to temptation for every single couple. There are those of us who are studying God's word and seeking his (and others') counsel who are still able to do this with a clear conscience before God.

It's for freedom that Christ set us free. Let us not be bound again, then, by a yoke of slavery or a list of "can't"s! Let's instead seek the Lord in all we do and seek to glorify him in ALL our relationships, no matter what looks like. And let's be careful not to pass judgment on other couples, for Christ called us first to love.

[4. cn-n said the following at 8:44 PM on Nov 26:]

4

uhhh... how many of you girls held your best friend's hand in kindergarten?
sometimes i feel like we blow things way out of proportion in an attempt to be pure. hmm... why don't we just commit to never being in the same room! how about that! then NOTHING can happen... problem solved. Maybe i'll write a book about it....
personally, i think there should be a healthy level of non-sexual affection in a dating relationship or courtship. Hand holding doesn't have to be something that leads to something else. I seriously feel bad for you if you have that little self control.
Someone once told me that any behavior with the opposite sex that you would not do infront of your father is inapproriate. I would feel comfortable holding my boyfriend's hand in front of my parents and pastors... infact, we've gone on walks with them and held hands.
if you don't want to hold hands thats fine, but its also ok to hold hands. I just don't think we should over sexualize, or over 'gate-way' everything.

[5. Ted Slater said the following at 10:39 AM on Nov 27:]

5

I get the sense that the previous two commenters haven't read the initial post closely. It's not primarily about "escalator temptation" or "legalism," as they are portraying it. And holding hands is not about "freedom in Christ."

It's about discernment and wisdom and clear and accurate and meaningful communication.

My initial post primarily touched on what one is communicating by holding another's hand. When you're marrying age, it's different from when you were in kindergarten. When you're marrying age, and you're holding the hand of someone you have romantic feelings for, you are communicating a type of "ownership" (maybe "responsibility" is a better word). It's no longer "just holding hands."

What I was saying in the initial blog post was that holding hands *means* something, that it shouldn't be done casually. I'm arguing that you should consider holding the hand of a romantic interest only after you've committed your life to that person.

By holding the hand of a romantic interest before any kind of commitment is made you are communicating something that you haven't expressed an interest in following up on.

It's a pretty radical suggestion, I admit. One that perhaps many of our readers aren't able to accept.

[6. Leah said the following at 5:34 PM on Nov 27:]

6

To Ted: I think those last two posts you were referring to were in response to Ame's post, not your original post. You didn't need to sound so condescending when you said "It's a pretty radical suggestion, I admit. One that perhaps many of our readers aren't able to accept." Is belittling your own readers going to help your point?

You say that holding hands communicates a certain "ownership". I agree, it does. But what if it doesn't hold that connotation for some people?

I also don't think Manda was saying that holding hands is freedom in Christ. I think she was saying that not being bound by a list of "can'ts" is freedom in Christ.

You accused readers of not reading your original post properly -- perhaps you should read your readers' posts properly.

[7. Amanda said the following at 12:43 AM on Nov 29:]

7

I apologize if I wasn't clear in my post, Ted. I think Leah summed it up pretty well, although I don't want this to be an unfriendly, unloving debate. A radical idea doesn't necessarily equate gospel truth, and I was just trying to add a little perspective. Does holding hands with a romantic interest signal responsibility and commitment? Yes. Does even entering into such a romantic relationship signal that same intent? For most Christians, yes.

I'm not saying that everyone is wrong who wants to save hand-holding for engagement. I'm saying that isn't necessarily what God calls each couple to do.

In the love of Christ, and not wanting this to go anywhere that isn't beneficial,
Amanda

[8. Tom said the following at 7:53 PM on Apr 5:]

8

I have held the hand of a very close friend/interest twice. Once was at her house for a prayer. The other time was on an airplane ride. Maybe it was two times on the one trip...I do not hold her hand as a normal thing. I agree to hold someones hand shows something to varying extents depending on the situation. When I was at her house and we prayed it was not even my choice that I sat next to her for dinner. In the plane it was to reassure her I was there next to her and everything would be alright as she is very afraid of flying. If I were to walk up to her Monday and take her hand as we walked through school that would mean way more than holding her hand while we were flying. Do you see what I mean? For me I am only planning to hold the hand of one lady. I mean hold her hand for the sake of holding her hand. For me it is an outward display of what is going on in my heart. For me until I am ready to say I am ready to walk with you hand in hand in life I am not going to walk holding her hand.

Not to mix up the pot too much but...What about a girl and a guy walking through the snow with her holding on to his arm? And she has a pulled ACL so if she slipped it could tear? The point being that she needs to be supported so she doesn't hurt her self.

[9. Sarah Chale said the following at 8:18 PM on Dec 23:]

9

To you people who don't have ears to hear about doing the right thing and are disrespectful to somone who is trying to do the right thing in saving somthing that is intimit, sacrid, and not just somthing you give to every person you get a fasinating feeling or so called love, that you only, and only give away to your one spouse, not 10-20 before married spouses. It is just as inimit as sex, way easyier to do in public though. The same as vomiting and pooping.

I know my spelling and puncuation is off, I'm not trying to come across as God. I want to stand up for whats right. Not for my flesh. Besides, you read this far. It would make a pathetic excuess to say I can't write/type to put down whats right. Stealing somthing as precious as married couples intamit stuff is so wrong.

I most heartly dissagree w/ the people that are em saying all that against the guy that wrote the top paragragh.

[10. Veronica said the following at 8:04 PM on Oct 12:]

10

Here is my concern, as a woman, about "no touching" policies.
It seems to me couples who never touch until marriage are training themselves to associate all physical contact with intercourse. It's as if they only know two speeds, no touching and sex.

Intercourse is not the only physical contact I want with my husband when we are married. I want my husband and I to hold hands, kiss, do other things without it necessarily being sexual. How will he learn that? How will I know the man I am contemplating marrying is capable of non-sexual affection after marriage if he never demonstrates it before marriage?

[11. Serena said the following at 7:59 AM on Oct 20:]

11

wow,i have held hands with guys that ive been comfortable with sometimes as soon as the first date. with my current beau, it happened on the 2nd date. It just felt right, and it didn't mean i would be sleeping with him that night, it just denoted that we felt comfortable enough to link hands. not to mention we live in nyc and there are some functions we go to that are quite crowded so its a necessity.

It's all about your comfort level and what you want to do. now kissing, etc. thats a different story. For whategver reason, holding hands to me is quite sweet and innocent.

[12. em said the following at 10:34 AM on Oct 20:]

12

Holding hands does "mean something."

That's not in question, Ted. I and others though are hearing in your post a suggestion that what you mean in holding hands (lifelong commitment) is what everyone means by it. Based on this "universal meaning" premise, we are also hearing a strong suggestion from you that everyone should refrain from holding hands until marriage.

I believe that's what provokes the references to legalism. If we are misunderstanding you, I, for one, would like to know it.

As a recently engaged woman, I can identify a great deal with Veronica's concerns. I have the luxury in my culture of not marrying someone if I don't love them. And I can't imagine loving someone who hasn't communicated love to me through affectionate touch.

To me, handholding does not communicate lifelong commitment but it does communicate something important. Beginning a relationship is a unique step (whether you call it courtship or dating) and it signifies that you are doing something with that individual that you are not simultaneously doing with someone else. When I first held hands with my now fiance, it meant "I am learning to trust you and I am committed to exploring with you whether God has marriage to each other in our future." That is exactly consistent with what we were communicating verbally at the time.

Physical affection is a very important way that we serve each other even as my fiance and I are committed to sexual integrity. We are also accountable to Godly friends and pastors.

This choice IS about discernment and wisdom and clear communication. You are right. But it is also an issue where we have "freedom in Christ" to respect and charitably judge how that wisdom and discernment looks in the lives of different couples.

[13. Ted Slater said the following at 11:54 AM on Oct 20:]

13

Veronica (#10) -- you wrote, "It seems to me couples who never touch until marriage are training themselves to associate all physical contact with intercourse. It's as if they only know two speeds, no touching and sex."

Let's look at my true story. I didn't hold hands with the woman I married until we were engaged. I didn't kiss her until the pastor told me, "Ted, you may kiss your bride."

We have no problem in our marriage expressing ourselves physically with each other, to communicate a variety of aspects of our affection for each other. Your contention that withholding certain physical expressions of affection prior to marriage will hurt that marriage *sounds* reasonable ... but it's just plain wrong.

[14. Ted Slater said the following at 12:03 PM on Oct 20:]

14

em (#12) -- you wrote:

"I and others though are hearing in your post a suggestion that what you mean in holding hands (lifelong commitment) is what everyone means by it."

No, no, no, no, no. I am not saying that holding hands means "lifelong commitment." Nowhere have I said that. That's not my point at all, and I don't want anyone to think that that's what I'm saying in the least.

I'm simply saying (and it really is quite simple) that holding hands means something, and it communicates a kind of responsibility or ownership. And we should be careful how we express responsibility or ownership for others, especially when there's no lasting commitment expressed.

Since I was merely courting my girlfriend, exploring God's will regarding our relationship, I felt no responsibility or ownership over her. And so we didn't hold hands. We expressed interest and affection in other ways. Once we were engaged, I did take on a new responsibility, and so I felt holding hands was an appropriate way to express that.

And let's cut the inferences that I'm promoting legalism, yeah? That's really insulting, distorts the biblical definition of "legalism," and does nothing to further the discussion.

[15. em said the following at 12:57 PM on Oct 20:]

15

Ted, I'm sorry for mishearing you and appreciate the clarification. I suppose I can go with you as far as that holding hands communicates to me a kind of responsibility - though not necessarily the marriage kind (more like responsibility to "honor God with you in a unique intentional relationship"). Not sure about ownership. Depends what you mean. It doesn't communicate commitment to marry to me but it does communicate a sort of closeness and exclusivity.

On the other hand, when we said "I love you" to each other, we did mean that we now believed that God is leading us toward marriage. It was sort of a step between dating and engagement for us. I know some people don't say "I love you" until engagement and others might not mean by it what we did. Perhaps, we viewed that statement similarly to how you and your wife viewed holding hands? I'm not sure.

And I'm certainly not trying to be insulting - just want to give you an idea how what you wrote came across to me. Again, I appreciate the clarification and respect your choices. I also appreciate you and wife's experience and story - just as I would hope you can appreciate that others with a different sort of story can also be seeking to honor God and live with integrity.

Blessings!

[16. Really? said the following at 10:15 PM on Dec 5:]

16

Are you people for real??? Seriously....

[17. Vanessa said the following at 1:38 PM on Dec 6:]

17

I've only deliberately held hands with one guy and it was a man I fully intended to marry. Unfortunately, we did not end up married.

My love language is touch, so holding hands is VERY special to me. I once had someone tell me that once you were with someone for awhile, the butterflies about it would go away and it would just be comfortable. With my former boyfriend, those butterflies never went away. I wish now that I hadn't done it, because now I miss it desperately. Before him, I had never known what it was, although I had imagined it quite often. Now that I know, I feel it missing quite keenly.

Will I hold hands with the next guy I'm with? I don't think I will until I know for sure he wants to marry me. It *is* that important to me.

By the way, I've never been kissed on the lips either...and I'm almost positive I want to keep that for "you may now kiss your bride" because I feel very strongly about that as well. Cheek kissing as an affectionate gesture from guys I've been interested in has been enough to warrant quite the response in me as well. I think that's something best kept for commitment as well.

Call me crazy, but I'm not a risk-taker and I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[1. Ame said the following at 2:04 AM on Nov 24:]

1

reading thru the archives ...

quite a few years ago a friend divorced - an ugly, public divorce where her husband and her best friend were "caught" and eventually got married - 7 children between them.

she began dating right away after the decree was final. first i heard, "we just held hands." then, "it was just a good-night kiss." then, "we were laying on the couch together." etc

as i was married at the time, i spent a lot of time thinking about where would i draw "the line" if i were ever single again; what advice would i give to a single woman? and i quickly moved down the ladder and realized that i would not even be able to hold hands because in marriage all forms of affection become a part of sex, and holding hands IS very meaningful for me.

i was not planning on being divorced. i had no idea my ex would dive into such a destructive path and cause me to be divorced.

but, i am VERY thankful i thought that through THEN. i made a lot of choices as she went thru choices she made that have proven valuable to me now.

i agree absolutely - holding hands is a very intimate expression and should be "saved" until at least a couple has committed to marry. AND, it is a decision that people should make loooong before any opportunity presents itself.

[2. bianca marie said the following at 10:47 AM on Nov 24:]

2

on Ame's comment(s):
"holding hands is a very intimate expression and should be "saved" until at least a couple has committed to marry." --- i dont agree that it applies to EVERY COUPLE; different couples have different weaknesses and strengths.
like you said, "it is a decision that people should make loooong before any opportunity presents itself." TRUE! COMMUNICATION is key... these are things, like i said, apply differenly to every couple and need to be brought up together and brought to prayer very early in the "courtship."
I agree that this works well for some, but not for all.
/b/

[3. manda said the following at 10:47 PM on Nov 25:]

3

I agoree with bianca -- let's not be legalistic here. Holding hands is not wrong or defrauding or an escalator to temptation for every single couple. There are those of us who are studying God's word and seeking his (and others') counsel who are still able to do this with a clear conscience before God.

It's for freedom that Christ set us free. Let us not be bound again, then, by a yoke of slavery or a list of "can't"s! Let's instead seek the Lord in all we do and seek to glorify him in ALL our relationships, no matter what looks like. And let's be careful not to pass judgment on other couples, for Christ called us first to love.

[4. cn-n said the following at 8:44 PM on Nov 26:]

4

uhhh... how many of you girls held your best friend's hand in kindergarten?
sometimes i feel like we blow things way out of proportion in an attempt to be pure. hmm... why don't we just commit to never being in the same room! how about that! then NOTHING can happen... problem solved. Maybe i'll write a book about it....
personally, i think there should be a healthy level of non-sexual affection in a dating relationship or courtship. Hand holding doesn't have to be something that leads to something else. I seriously feel bad for you if you have that little self control.
Someone once told me that any behavior with the opposite sex that you would not do infront of your father is inapproriate. I would feel comfortable holding my boyfriend's hand in front of my parents and pastors... infact, we've gone on walks with them and held hands.
if you don't want to hold hands thats fine, but its also ok to hold hands. I just don't think we should over sexualize, or over 'gate-way' everything.

[5. Ted Slater said the following at 10:39 AM on Nov 27:]

5

I get the sense that the previous two commenters haven't read the initial post closely. It's not primarily about "escalator temptation" or "legalism," as they are portraying it. And holding hands is not about "freedom in Christ."

It's about discernment and wisdom and clear and accurate and meaningful communication.

My initial post primarily touched on what one is communicating by holding another's hand. When you're marrying age, it's different from when you were in kindergarten. When you're marrying age, and you're holding the hand of someone you have romantic feelings for, you are communicating a type of "ownership" (maybe "responsibility" is a better word). It's no longer "just holding hands."

What I was saying in the initial blog post was that holding hands *means* something, that it shouldn't be done casually. I'm arguing that you should consider holding the hand of a romantic interest only after you've committed your life to that person.

By holding the hand of a romantic interest before any kind of commitment is made you are communicating something that you haven't expressed an interest in following up on.

It's a pretty radical suggestion, I admit. One that perhaps many of our readers aren't able to accept.

[6. Leah said the following at 5:34 PM on Nov 27:]

6

To Ted: I think those last two posts you were referring to were in response to Ame's post, not your original post. You didn't need to sound so condescending when you said "It's a pretty radical suggestion, I admit. One that perhaps many of our readers aren't able to accept." Is belittling your own readers going to help your point?

You say that holding hands communicates a certain "ownership". I agree, it does. But what if it doesn't hold that connotation for some people?

I also don't think Manda was saying that holding hands is freedom in Christ. I think she was saying that not being bound by a list of "can'ts" is freedom in Christ.

You accused readers of not reading your original post properly -- perhaps you should read your readers' posts properly.

[7. Amanda said the following at 12:43 AM on Nov 29:]

7

I apologize if I wasn't clear in my post, Ted. I think Leah summed it up pretty well, although I don't want this to be an unfriendly, unloving debate. A radical idea doesn't necessarily equate gospel truth, and I was just trying to add a little perspective. Does holding hands with a romantic interest signal responsibility and commitment? Yes. Does even entering into such a romantic relationship signal that same intent? For most Christians, yes.

I'm not saying that everyone is wrong who wants to save hand-holding for engagement. I'm saying that isn't necessarily what God calls each couple to do.

In the love of Christ, and not wanting this to go anywhere that isn't beneficial,
Amanda

[8. Tom said the following at 7:53 PM on Apr 5:]

8

I have held the hand of a very close friend/interest twice. Once was at her house for a prayer. The other time was on an airplane ride. Maybe it was two times on the one trip...I do not hold her hand as a normal thing. I agree to hold someones hand shows something to varying extents depending on the situation. When I was at her house and we prayed it was not even my choice that I sat next to her for dinner. In the plane it was to reassure her I was there next to her and everything would be alright as she is very afraid of flying. If I were to walk up to her Monday and take her hand as we walked through school that would mean way more than holding her hand while we were flying. Do you see what I mean? For me I am only planning to hold the hand of one lady. I mean hold her hand for the sake of holding her hand. For me it is an outward display of what is going on in my heart. For me until I am ready to say I am ready to walk with you hand in hand in life I am not going to walk holding her hand.

Not to mix up the pot too much but...What about a girl and a guy walking through the snow with her holding on to his arm? And she has a pulled ACL so if she slipped it could tear? The point being that she needs to be supported so she doesn't hurt her self.

[9. Sarah Chale said the following at 8:18 PM on Dec 23:]

9

To you people who don't have ears to hear about doing the right thing and are disrespectful to somone who is trying to do the right thing in saving somthing that is intimit, sacrid, and not just somthing you give to every person you get a fasinating feeling or so called love, that you only, and only give away to your one spouse, not 10-20 before married spouses. It is just as inimit as sex, way easyier to do in public though. The same as vomiting and pooping.

I know my spelling and puncuation is off, I'm not trying to come across as God. I want to stand up for whats right. Not for my flesh. Besides, you read this far. It would make a pathetic excuess to say I can't write/type to put down whats right. Stealing somthing as precious as married couples intamit stuff is so wrong.

I most heartly dissagree w/ the people that are em saying all that against the guy that wrote the top paragragh.

[10. Veronica said the following at 8:04 PM on Oct 12:]

10

Here is my concern, as a woman, about "no touching" policies.
It seems to me couples who never touch until marriage are training themselves to associate all physical contact with intercourse. It's as if they only know two speeds, no touching and sex.

Intercourse is not the only physical contact I want with my husband when we are married. I want my husband and I to hold hands, kiss, do other things without it necessarily being sexual. How will he learn that? How will I know the man I am contemplating marrying is capable of non-sexual affection after marriage if he never demonstrates it before marriage?

[11. Serena said the following at 7:59 AM on Oct 20:]

11

wow,i have held hands with guys that ive been comfortable with sometimes as soon as the first date. with my current beau, it happened on the 2nd date. It just felt right, and it didn't mean i would be sleeping with him that night, it just denoted that we felt comfortable enough to link hands. not to mention we live in nyc and there are some functions we go to that are quite crowded so its a necessity.

It's all about your comfort level and what you want to do. now kissing, etc. thats a different story. For whategver reason, holding hands to me is quite sweet and innocent.

[12. em said the following at 10:34 AM on Oct 20:]

12

Holding hands does "mean something."

That's not in question, Ted. I and others though are hearing in your post a suggestion that what you mean in holding hands (lifelong commitment) is what everyone means by it. Based on this "universal meaning" premise, we are also hearing a strong suggestion from you that everyone should refrain from holding hands until marriage.

I believe that's what provokes the references to legalism. If we are misunderstanding you, I, for one, would like to know it.

As a recently engaged woman, I can identify a great deal with Veronica's concerns. I have the luxury in my culture of not marrying someone if I don't love them. And I can't imagine loving someone who hasn't communicated love to me through affectionate touch.

To me, handholding does not communicate lifelong commitment but it does communicate something important. Beginning a relationship is a unique step (whether you call it courtship or dating) and it signifies that you are doing something with that individual that you are not simultaneously doing with someone else. When I first held hands with my now fiance, it meant "I am learning to trust you and I am committed to exploring with you whether God has marriage to each other in our future." That is exactly consistent with what we were communicating verbally at the time.

Physical affection is a very important way that we serve each other even as my fiance and I are committed to sexual integrity. We are also accountable to Godly friends and pastors.

This choice IS about discernment and wisdom and clear communication. You are right. But it is also an issue where we have "freedom in Christ" to respect and charitably judge how that wisdom and discernment looks in the lives of different couples.

[13. Ted Slater said the following at 11:54 AM on Oct 20:]

13

Veronica (#10) -- you wrote, "It seems to me couples who never touch until marriage are training themselves to associate all physical contact with intercourse. It's as if they only know two speeds, no touching and sex."

Let's look at my true story. I didn't hold hands with the woman I married until we were engaged. I didn't kiss her until the pastor told me, "Ted, you may kiss your bride."

We have no problem in our marriage expressing ourselves physically with each other, to communicate a variety of aspects of our affection for each other. Your contention that withholding certain physical expressions of affection prior to marriage will hurt that marriage *sounds* reasonable ... but it's just plain wrong.

[14. Ted Slater said the following at 12:03 PM on Oct 20:]

14

em (#12) -- you wrote:

"I and others though are hearing in your post a suggestion that what you mean in holding hands (lifelong commitment) is what everyone means by it."

No, no, no, no, no. I am not saying that holding hands means "lifelong commitment." Nowhere have I said that. That's not my point at all, and I don't want anyone to think that that's what I'm saying in the least.

I'm simply saying (and it really is quite simple) that holding hands means something, and it communicates a kind of responsibility or ownership. And we should be careful how we express responsibility or ownership for others, especially when there's no lasting commitment expressed.

Since I was merely courting my girlfriend, exploring God's will regarding our relationship, I felt no responsibility or ownership over her. And so we didn't hold hands. We expressed interest and affection in other ways. Once we were engaged, I did take on a new responsibility, and so I felt holding hands was an appropriate way to express that.

And let's cut the inferences that I'm promoting legalism, yeah? That's really insulting, distorts the biblical definition of "legalism," and does nothing to further the discussion.

[15. em said the following at 12:57 PM on Oct 20:]

15

Ted, I'm sorry for mishearing you and appreciate the clarification. I suppose I can go with you as far as that holding hands communicates to me a kind of responsibility - though not necessarily the marriage kind (more like responsibility to "honor God with you in a unique intentional relationship"). Not sure about ownership. Depends what you mean. It doesn't communicate commitment to marry to me but it does communicate a sort of closeness and exclusivity.

On the other hand, when we said "I love you" to each other, we did mean that we now believed that God is leading us toward marriage. It was sort of a step between dating and engagement for us. I know some people don't say "I love you" until engagement and others might not mean by it what we did. Perhaps, we viewed that statement similarly to how you and your wife viewed holding hands? I'm not sure.

And I'm certainly not trying to be insulting - just want to give you an idea how what you wrote came across to me. Again, I appreciate the clarification and respect your choices. I also appreciate you and wife's experience and story - just as I would hope you can appreciate that others with a different sort of story can also be seeking to honor God and live with integrity.

Blessings!

[16. Really? said the following at 10:15 PM on Dec 5:]

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Are you people for real??? Seriously....

[17. Vanessa said the following at 1:38 PM on Dec 6:]

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I've only deliberately held hands with one guy and it was a man I fully intended to marry. Unfortunately, we did not end up married.

My love language is touch, so holding hands is VERY special to me. I once had someone tell me that once you were with someone for awhile, the butterflies about it would go away and it would just be comfortable. With my former boyfriend, those butterflies never went away. I wish now that I hadn't done it, because now I miss it desperately. Before him, I had never known what it was, although I had imagined it quite often. Now that I know, I feel it missing quite keenly.

Will I hold hands with the next guy I'm with? I don't think I will until I know for sure he wants to marry me. It *is* that important to me.

By the way, I've never been kissed on the lips either...and I'm almost positive I want to keep that for "you may now kiss your bride" because I feel very strongly about that as well. Cheek kissing as an affectionate gesture from guys I've been interested in has been enough to warrant quite the response in me as well. I think that's something best kept for commitment as well.

Call me crazy, but I'm not a risk-taker and I'd rather be safe than sorry.